• Tamra Andress

This is How We Do It with Montell and Kristin Jordan

It's kind of funny to be with the artist and share your passion for their groove and their music. Today, I had the pleasure of interviewing Montell Jordan and his wife, Kristin. There is a deeper connection in this conversation because it's not about "This Is How We Do It."

This is how he does everything, and God has such a play in this storyline. From best-selling album to best-selling marriage and connection between the two. He's ultimately showing His love and giving it freely in his own marriage, in their ministry, and their legacy.

It's in their families. It's in their entrepreneurial vision, and so much of how they show up in the world. And I know without a shadow of a doubt that this podcast is going to bless you from the inside out. And so give him a round of applause, tag him, show up for him, leave a review for this specific episode.\

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About Montell:

Montell & Kristin Jordan began their marriage and music career journey together as artist and manager over 20 years ago, entering into the recording industry with the #1 hit song “This Is How We Do It” less than one year after saying “I do.” The challenge of being married in the music business created an inspiring real life story where following 2 decades of world touring and millions of album sales, they chose marriage over music, faith over fame, and significance over success and allowed God to reinvent their lives to surround their family values and passion to see the covenant of marriage reestablished, and hope restored in the hearts of men and women everywhere. Together, Montell and Kristin have co-authored their first book; This Is How We Do It! Making Your Marriage A Masterpeace. Today they travel around the world ministering together from large to intimate settings with intent to have an opportunity to open up their lives to positively influence and impact both married couples and those who desire to be married. Their story is a message of hope based on taking Christian principles and making them practical for successful application in our daily lives in matrimony and family. Their book is now available in digital and video formats and is being used as a successful marriage building curriculum for couples and small groups all around the world. Together, they lead their ministry Marriage Masterpeace, a 501c3. You can support them at They are both licensed pastors, providing both marital and pre-marriage guidance to couples. Montell & Kristin are parents to 5 wonderful kids, and three grandsons.

Where to Find Montell:

Instagram: Montellandkristin Facebook: Montellandkristin Twitter: Montelljordan YouTube: MontellJordanTV & Montellandkristin

Montell and Kristin's book -

Show Notes: This is How We Do It

I have to ask Montel how many times the podcast hosts is saying, this is how we do with right and jammed out in front of him. It's kind of funny to be with the artist and share your passion for their groove and their music. But really, truly there is a deeper connect in this conversation because it's not about, this is how we do anything.

It's about, this is how he does everything. And God has such a play in this storyline. Best selling album to best selling marriage and the connection between the two. And he's ultimately selling his love, showing his love and giving it freely. And it's not just in his own marriage, it's in their ministry, it's in their legacy.

It's in their families. It's in their entrepreneurial vision. And so much of how they show up in the world. And I know without a shadow of a doubt that this podcast is going to bless you from the inside out. And so just give him a round of applause, tag him, show up for him, leave a review for this specific episode.

It would mean the world to the fit and faith community honored to have you all here and excited to hear your feedback from Montell Jordan.

Welcome to the fit and faith podcast. It is an acronym representing founders, innovators, and trailblazers who are looking to live a life wholly, fully, authentically, and truly fit as space for us to connect on the raw real stories of mind, body, and soul alignment of entrepreneurs in kingdom leader. I'm your host, Tamra and dress.

And this podcast, isn't like the cookie cutter interview experience. I've been coined the entrepreneurial rabbi. And so we do go there unscripted, no matter how far wide, deep or high there is. My desire is to see people rise from the inside, out, into their greatest calling, by sharing their truest stories, talents and tips as a purpose activator and brand.

I believe our successes and failures are derived from who and whose we are not what we do, but strategy and vision are equally as important to the mission. So let's cut to the chase together and get fit in faith.

Hey, Hey, Hey you 11 and action with the one and only Montell Jordan. Thanks for being here. I'm glad to be here with you. My says, I hope all is well with you and excited to be here with fit and fit. Yeah. Come on. So fit in faith in, you may not know stands for founders, innovators, and trailblazers. That's what Fitz stands for.

And I believe you and your wife, Kristin, have been doing that for quite a season, right. And I'm sure you could go to the way far backstory, but let's get started in with where everybody is. Your claim to fame, and then we'll actually take a back step to your childhood and how it got to be where it was at that point.

So tell us about this is how we do it. Ah, that was well done. That was well done. Uh, well, you know, this is how we do it was my very first song. It was an introduction to the music industry. Uh, it was, uh, uh, first number one record. My very first song was my very first number one record. Um, it was the record label, Def jam records, very first number one, RNB record.

Uh, and so it was a lot of first that came along with that song. It was, uh, an introduction to the music business that was really getting thrown into the deep end, uh, if you will. And so. Uh, the song was, you know, people ask, um, when, how did the song was it created? R did I know it was a hit when I created it.

And the only thing I can say, uh, to that, uh, is that I knew long before the song was ever created or record it, uh, that the original song, it was sampled from an artist by the name of slick, Rick, a song called children's story. And so I knew back then when I was in college. That that song was a smash hit record.

And I said, if I ever got an opportunity to be in the music business, I was going to sing over that record and believed that we could make it into a classic if someone actually sang over that hip hop record. And so that's how that happened many years before the song ever existed. I always said about every single, but that record, if I could ever get a chance to get an, a business, I'm a sing over that record and sort of rest is history.

I love that. I love that you knew it so early, right? And you were just like, I'm gunning for it. How long from that time where you're like, this is going to be a hit. This could be a hit as one day will be a hit to the time that it actually hit definitely a decade. I would imagine that, uh, you know, with me being in, uh, coming out of high school in 1986, uh, doing college from 86 to 91, those were the years that during college, I was also trying to get into the music business, you know, That whole idea of overnight success.

My overnight success, I wasn't overnight success, but it took me 10 years of overnight. Before I got to the morning when I woke up and was an overnight success. So really the story of the trailblazer, right? That's, that's how it is. And so I literally, it was a good decade of me hearing that song and knowing that song was something special, but waiting for the right time for it to actually be introduced to the world and into myself really.

So where are you in pursuit of the music industry for that 10 years in that time? Uh, I was doing a bunch of stuff at the time. It was, uh, uh, going to college, graduated from college, working in advertising, preparing to go to law school. Uh, I had a lot of plan BS if I'm honest. Uh, and, uh, and I, I think I got into the place of where I said, okay, I want to do this.

And there is no, no real plan B, even if I said, even if this doesn't work out, I'll try, I'll go back to loss. I'll go to law school and I'll do X, Y, and Z. But I really purposed in my heart. Uh there's there's going to be no plan B to this. I'm going to do this. And when I purposed that, you know, in my heart, uh, and put that before God, I think that was when it was like, okay, you're going to do this or nothing is going to get done.

And so that's when I went head first into it and everything started to material. And your wife was your manager at this point, at that time, before the record deal and everything, she. Just my girlfriend. Uh, she loaned me the money to go to New York city, to meet Russell Simmons that eventually got me the record deal.

Uh, and so we knew that going into the business, I wanted her to manage me and I wanted her to be my wife. And so we took care of both of those things before I got into the music business. So she became manager and wife, uh, right about the same. Wow. And I'm so curious because obviously you guys went full bore after a number one hit song into the music industry and inspiring people in all the realms and, and curious from working so closely.

How was that handled in that seat? That was, uh, that was very challenging, you know, to be, to be honest. And she'll tell you as well, that we were really, really good at business. We were good at music and creativity and artistry and, uh, and building company. Relationships. Uh, we sucked at marriage. Uh, we, we were not good at being married at being submitted to each other at being anything that had to do with marriage for us was really the thing that we knew.

Okay. Before we do this, this music business thing, we gotta be married because nobody that gets gets into this business. If they're not married, they're just not going to make it. So not even understanding covenant fully, we just knew for whatever reason we have to be married. Before we get in. And so we got married and then literally we went on a honeymoon.

We came back and then a week later we were in the studio, mashing out the album in 1994, uh, and then released at, uh, in, uh, early 1995. And so, uh, long story short, we were terrible at being married for many years. Uh, but we were really, really good at business because we had put that. Yeah. And I think as entrepreneurial brains, right, that's tends to be how it is.

And I think that God positioned us with people who have that. Not necessarily that both of them in the marriage or the couple are entrepreneurs, but they can support one another in that right. Strengths versus weaknesses. And how that looks at equal yoke is really important. My husband and I are both entrepreneurs, which is why I asked, um, because it's easy to go run after the thing that you're really good at.

And it's hard to slow down. Put that as the forefront, which is what you guys exactly did and realize actually, this is where the premise of the foundation of any success, any growth, any opportunity really exists from the home and the heart and the head, the mental health side before we can ever go out and serve.

So was there an aha moment that shifted you into the place that you're in now and maybe all of the listeners don't even know what that place is now. So talk us through the evolution of where you. Yeah, well, the, the aha moment, uh, that I think was the big turning point. From where we were then in our merit light into where we are now, uh, the, the aha moment was called adultery.

That that was the aha moment. And it was more like, ah, ah, you know, and, and so, you know, I, you know, I laugh about it. Now we can laugh about it now. Um, it's, it's not a laughing matter because people have been through it. People may be watching this right now, going through it. Uh, and, and that was a difficult journey, was a journey of, because we didn't put our marriage first and we put our business first.

Um, the other things that should have been prioritized basically, uh, fell apart. Uh, and so we were living kind of this house of cards, where we had great, uh, musical relationships and hit records and face. Things that were, uh, counterfeit success, um, and no real significance to undergird us. And so that aha moment was I was living a lie.

I was a, a man who, uh, suffered with loneliness. I suffered. Uh, of not having a holy spirit. I, I suffered of professing that I love the Lord in, in word. And my heart was far from the Lord and, and understand in the music business, my wife and I were still seen as probably someone, the most spiritual people in the business.

The business was a very, very good. Business. And so, uh, you know, I thought that we had control of a lot of things in the business and really the business had control over us. And so I wasn't like a, a serial adulterer where I was out there just trying to be grimy and hide it. I was the repentive. I would fall little by little.

And so that trap, you know, a friend once explained it to me as a spiderweb. It's kind of like the more you move. The more you get entangled in it. Uh, and that's how it started. It started out with. Small, you know, extra, extra flirtation or extra smiles or extra conversations that became, okay, well maybe we'll meet after Berg coffee, or maybe we'll just have dinner, but nothing else or, well, maybe we'll go to a movie and nothing else.

And so you talking years and years and years of inching and inching closer and closer to. That line, you know, you have to draw a line in the concrete, you know, because when you draw a line in the sand, when that water washes over it, people can really move that line back and forth. And so it was a series of progressions.

Major sin, but minor tiny sin that led to more and more and more. Okay, well maybe I can just hold your hand or maybe I could this and because we didn't put our marriage first, we weren't intimate on a regular basis with each other. We weren't taking care of each other emotionally and spiritually and sexually all of those things.

We were good business partners. We were roommates and houses. We were not a good married couple. And so, uh, we neglected each other. I would fall. Uh, and then I would come back to Jesus and be like, Lord, what is wrong with me? Helped me, you know, save me, fix me and then forgive me and he'd forgive me. And then I'm good for like a month.

And then. Fall back and fall back years and years and years of it. And so the aha moment came where some friends that have been with us throughout many, many years, we were planning a vacation and the friend came forward and said, Hey, uh, to my wife, we're not going on vacation. Uh, my wife was like, why we do this all the time?

Why we not going on vacation? And she was like, I'll let Montel tell you, you know? And so, uh, she put me on the phone with a very, very good friend. We're still very good friends to this. Uh, but she, she put me on the phone with a friend and the friend said, uh, if you don't tell her, I will. And that was the aha moment.

And that aha was, if I tell my wife, I can lose everything and have to split everything and I can keep my life. If she finds out another way. I die pretty much. It will be, you know, and that was my thought. I, I thought I would probably end up dead if my wife found out something that was that devastating to her.

And so I told her, and that was the aha moment for us. And then in that, uh, through the, she legitimately could have left. She legitimately could have divorced. She had grounds to do it. She had proved everything that she needed to do. To walk away with half of everything, she could have done that. Uh, and the thing that she did differently that most women would want to speak with her about.

And most men that want to know, why did you stay? How did you stay? Why did you stay? Uh, and she would tell you that, uh, God told her that her life and our daughter's life who was four years old at the time dependent on her stay. Uh, God told her that she didn't have to trust me, but she could treat. God in me, uh, and also told her, why would you leave and take half when you can stay and have it all?

And so in all of those things, she allowed God to then do the work in me to change me and transform me into a godly man that could be trusted that did have the holy spirit as accountability to lean into. Uh, and when I got the holy spirit, when I receive holy spirit, that changed everything for me, it changed the trajectory of our family.

It changed our legacy. It changed everything. I think that for me was the, the pivotal moment that led us from there to where we are now that as a, as a man who knows that outside of holy spirit, outside of God, y'all way the father outside of Jesus, the son outside of those pieces, keeping me in sustaining me.

I am nothing. I have nothing. I can do nothing. That's what my pastor Dennis Rouse would say. I I'm nothing without those things. And that was the. Uh, that came about from me being exposed in my deepest sin. Yeah. And I can relate to so much of that story on both sides actually. Um, and so it's a, it's a hard place to sit.

It's a really dark place to sit. Um, I'm curious if you had any like suicidal ideation in that concept of, I could die if I did this. Uh, I ne I never had that. I think I had it wasn't suicidal. It was a murder. I thought my wife would kill me. Yeah, it wasn't. Oh yeah, it was, it was if you know, right, right.

After my wife found out, when I, when I told her immediately she left the house, like she immediately just got in a car and left the house because she knew that if she stayed, she would probably impulsively do something that she would never be able. To live down or take back. And so that led to her, going to confront the people who are around us, who shielded us and who kept silent.

And then looking into the cocoon that we had built this facade of relationship with people that we loved and that loved us, but that were reliant on us financially for livelihood. That if this thing, if this house of cards falls down, this is our lives too. So we need to insulate the whole thing. I had enablers that, you know, allowed my indiscretions to just kind of, you know, be okay, well, this is, I guess, just how this goes.

I'm going to stay silent so that, you know, nobody called me to the mat. Nobody called me to the floor on it, because it was, uh, you know, you potentially, we built that. Shaky foundation of people and relationships to sustain, uh, you know, sin and to sustain our frailties as you know, as humans. So there's a, there was a word you said at the very forefront of how.

And it was this word submit, um, submission. Right. And a lot of people have a really hard time, especially in marriage or female to male relationships, to even consider something like that, whether it's based in trauma, whether it's based in, you know, secular world vision of what submission looks like. And we know that submission first starts with the whole, with God, with himself and to be able to submit surrender, release, uh, repent any of these words, right?

They're all similar. Uh, I always call them the white flag moments of people's lives when they are like on the side of the road with cars broken down. They're like, I got nowhere to go and I'm willing. To get in the boat with a stranger. I'm willing to have anybody pull over to help support this situation.

And Jesus is always, literally standing right there. The moment instantaneously that happens, he's ready, but we have to not have like the, maybe this is just for a forgiveness moment. Like you said, I ran back. I forgot. He forgave. And that was like a month later back in that space. It's that holy spirit moment versus that religion moment, right.

That relationship exchange versus just, I know I'm supposed to do this. I know this is what God says. This is what the Bible says. I'm supposed to be forgiven. He forgives, and now I can live in sin still again, because he'll always let me run back to the whole. Talk to me about what submission means to you and your marriage, and also how you had to submit your career or what you thought was your career at that point.

Yeah. Thank you for that question. I think submission for me is maybe. I don't know if it's possible to be, have more depth to it than what it means for me. But, uh, I wasn't at the time I wasn't submitted to God. I wasn't submitted to my wife. My wife was, uh, submitted to me. So you had a bunch of people who all want it to lead.

We all want it to be in control. And then, because I'm the artist and she's the manager. Then it's is the artist really telling the manager what to do for everybody else to do it, or is the manager really telling the artists what to do to get the desired results? And then when we leave manager and artists and then go home, who's the husband and wife and who submit there was no submission.

No submission anywhere in our relationship. And once again, it was harder for her to submit to me as a wife because I wasn't submitted to God. And I think any woman has a challenge submitting to the headship of a, of a, of a husband, uh, um, when the husband is not submitted first, uh, to God. The way I viewed submission and come to view submission was through one of my favorite, uh, older pastimes, which was watching a WWE wrestling, um, and a famous, famous wrestlers.

And I love wrestling, you know, for years and years and years still do. Uh, and in wrestling they have something called a submission hold, uh, and a submission. Hold it. If you're not aware of. Uh, is when you get yourself in a compromising position with your opponent, uh, the compromising position is a place to where something is going to get broken.

If you don't tap out. It's when I was a kid. If your, your cousin bent your hand back and said, say uncle, say uncle, and you didn't want to say uncle, but you understood. If I don't say. I will really get my hand broken. Uh, and so the, the submission is when something is bit or it's out of shape or it's compromised in the position of being broken, the person in UFC or in the end, the fights that they get in that, and that look in that place.

You have to, you have to tap out even at your last breath. You, you tap out. Cause it's the last thing your body is in voluntarily able to do. And tapping out signifies, don't break it, but now you can be released from it. Uh, that for me was with my marriage. Uh, I had to tap out with, with sin. Uh, I had to tap out with all of those different places in my life.

I eventually had to submit to God because I was in compromising positions, uh, that could have been broken beyond repair. Had I not had I not tapped out. And so I think the beauty of submission, uh, is. Once you submit, there's a safety that comes from the submission, a safety that, okay, God, I'm going to yield this to you.

And even though I'm submitting that now, There's a safety in that, that my wife can then say, I submit to you. I can say I submit, you know, to my, to my wife. Um, those are things that we found safety in, uh, that things didn't have to get broken. And let me just tag this last little piece on, um, when it came to my music career, uh, it was beyond submission.

That was actual sacrifice. Uh, and I submitted. The career to God finally saying, okay, God, I'm going to give this to you. What do you want to do with it? And then God says, I want you to kill it. And so I had a real Abraham moment where God didn't take my career and, and kill it. God made me. Take my career, my one and only son and take it up on the altar and strap it down to the altar with no, no Ram in the Bush and raise up the knife and say, okay, I'm going to kill this.

I'll kill it. And be waiting for God to give the Ram in the Bush. And there was no Ram in the Bush. Um, I had to kill my career, uh, and I think the beautiful thing about. Even the death of a career was I submitted it to the hands of the only God, whoever rose from the grave. He's the only one that ever resurrected anything.

And so even though I had to kill it, I'm now living in a place of a resurrected marriage. I'm living in a place of resurrected music of resurrected creativity, because I was willing to go through with. Um, it, it was not an Abraham moment for me. It wasn't a, I'm about to kill it and it God said, no, no, no, I got something.

No, I had to kill it. And my career died for several years. And so you got now, uh, Tamra and Lazarus, uh, together, uh, on, on fit and faith because. Um, but I was dead. My marriage was dead. My career was dead. My life was dead and God was gracious enough because I submitted it that life to him to resurrect it.

And then allow me to now go back around the same people that said they can look at me and say, is that, is that the same guy that, that we know died? Is that, that this is how we do it. I thought he was dead. I thought he was gone. Uh, and, and now be living alone. Uh, submitted life, where, where, uh, I'm resurrected.

It's so good. And that this is going to get really confusing for the, the audience. And so hopefully they can pick up just based on the variation of our voice, but Lazarus, meat, Lazarus. Okay. Nice to meet you that out of the grave. Right. And, and this is what's so incredible is that resurrection and that restoration, it was actually in multiple cases.

Because it wasn't just the one thing that he resurrected in our lives. It was so much more than that. Uh, you now have five kiddos, correct. And a grand babies. So it's like, there is multiplication, there is generational bondage that has been broken. There is so much seed and harvest that is coming out of the obedience and commitment and sacrifice.

Yeah. The counterfeit lifestyle that I thought I had, uh, God gave me like such an amazing, I can't even, I don't even have the word for it. It's just, when I think of what I thought I had, it was a counterfeit lifestyle. It was counterfeit money. It was counterfeit fame, everything that I was living in counterfeit love, counterfeit relationships.

None of it was real. Uh, and now I have our four kids and my, uh, well now kind of six because both of my oldest kids are both married now. Uh, so I got, you know, six kids now, and then I've got three grandsons now, like w that's legacy man that's legacy that all of this could have been stopped way back when it was just my wife and a four year old daughter.

Um, before I said yes to the holy spirit, before I said yes to God, you know, really coming in and doing what he was going to do. And so, you know, that counterfeit life a lot, you know, I, I I've said this Tamar is that, you know, counterfeit money will. Counterfeit money does spend, uh, I think that the challenge is knowing that you have a million counterfeit dollars or having one real dollar.

Uh, a lot of people will just take the million counterfeit because they know it'll spin, but at some point they're going to find out that it's worth nothing it's worthless and the way that people know that they are, that they are living a counterfeit lifestyle. Uh, is, uh, uh, if I were to talk to a bank teller, a bank teller will tell you the way that they can tell when they come across counterfeit money is because they handled real money so much.

They handle real money so much that when they get to something that's not really. They immediately recognize it because they, it comes from handling real money. And so from having real love and real relationship and real intimacy and real faith and all of those real things, now I'm able to recognize when counterfeit comes along.

And try and help point people also away from the counterfeit towards, you know, our God who is real. Yeah. And, you know, I was, I always coined it in the sense of like, my eyes have been revealed in an empathetic way to watching people. I haven't ever used it as counterfeit culture, but that's totally what it is.

I've always said it just as like, um, almost like the walking. Right. It's like the rat wheel, uh, of busy life. It's the rat wheel of, um, a culture where people are just blinded and they're blinded from the light instead of walking in the light and they want to go the opposite direction because there's a herd mentality of, well, everybody's doing it this way.

Everybody gets divorced. So it's no big deal. If I just get divorced and then find counterfeit love again, I'll be fine. There'll be fine. And I love, love, love that your wife, in addition to sacrificing that you did, she sacrificed a lot in order to say, I trust the holy spirit. I trust the God within you and not, I don't have to trust you that that statement I just think is so powerful and how she also rose to the occasion and got to not only witness the resurrection of you as the husband, but you as the father and herself in this new identity.

Because intimacy is a two way thing. She never got to truly even be with you in the way that she now gets to be with you now, because now she's with all of you, rather than just a portion of who you are. Amen. Right. It's so incredible. So you guys actually, you sacrifice that music business, which so many people know you through and you guys started, this is how we do it.

Or you wrote this book. This is how we do it. Making your marriage a massive. Keith like peace, joy, love, not peace. Like the pieces of something. And I love that play on words. Can you talk me through what that ministry looks like and how you get to show up fully to serve God's kingdom at this? Absolutely.

Well, um, the whole scripture that says that the, uh, the, the I'm trying to make sure I don't just butcher the word of God. I mean, I'm a pastor, so I'm trying to do this the right way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Amen. Um, but, uh, there's this, this idea that, um, Our lives are, you know, the foolish, there are ways that God can use the foolish things of the world to confound the wise.

So my wife and I, we are, we are foolish things of the world, uh, and it doesn't make sense. And I've often said, is it doesn't make sense, uh, for an adulterer, uh, in a bigger story, uh, two adulterers, uh, to be doing marriage, man. Like none of that, none of that makes sense. And that's only God could do something like that to take broken pieces.

And masterpiece kinda came from, we believe that our lives are comprised of all these little pieces, uh, dating job kids significance, uh, well, all that, all those pieces. We believe we're like this puzzle that we all as humans are trying to navigate and put that thing together. And it's hard to put together a puzzle when there's a piece missing.

Right. Uh, and so we have found, and we believe that marriage is that master piece to that puzzle. And that when you use that as the masterpiece. You learn how to master peace as enjoy and love. And, and so that's where that came from for us, that before we thought that it was money, that was the piece of the puzzle or fame, that was the piece of the puzzle.

And then realizing it was really what she and I have together as a married couple reflecting father, son, holy spirit, in our marriage together that becomes the center. The centrifical piece that. Job and family and all those other pieces gravitate around that masterpiece. That's what we believe that God has given us in our testimony in our lives to be able to share with the world.

And our experience has been drastic. We've had drastic experiences. We've had infidelity, we've had house fires. We've had bankruptcy. We've had loss of a child. We have almost every imaginable. Circumstance that couples would be navigating through thinking at the time we were going through it, God, why would you allow our child to die?

God, why would you allow our house to burn down God, we living for you. We Todd, why we do allow this bankruptcy to take place and all the while getting these answers from God that it's not about. It's not about you, it's not about you. And I'm like, no, it's my kid though. So it kind of is about me. No, this is our finances.

This is about me. This is our home. It is about me. And then later in life to come across people who were, who had lost a child and then realized, now I get to speak into that. And then maybe that wasn't about me, but it was for me to be able to help this person. Get through the loss of their child or out to hurricane Katrina, this family that lost everything in their business.

And I just lost my house six months ago. And now I recognize, oh, I can look into that. Man's blank stare of a man who lost everything from the blank stare of a man who lost everything, but regained everything in Christ. And now we'll be able to speak into his life. And so every tragedy that we them through masterpiece the book is literally just.

Us telling all the yucky stuff that happened to us in a digestible format. So other people can see themselves and see potentially their way out of, or their way into the promises that God has for them from some people that have been bold enough and transparent enough to talk about. So good and, and totally got aligned because I got connected to you through clubhouses several, several months ago, actually.

And inquired about you coming onto the show. And last Friday released my first book, uh, called always becoming sex shame and. And it aligns to this so deeply and so many ways. And, uh, it's pretty miraculous to see what God does with obedience. Even when it feels really scary, even when it feels like you're sharing all the grotesque.

Right. But the intensity of it is not about. You again, it's not about the shame. It's not about the backstory or any action or lack of action that anybody took in the story. It's all about his glory. And it's all about his name being manifested in the world for everyone who reads who's doesn't know who he is, whereas yearning to understand the full power, the full resurrection power of what he can do in there.

I see you sister, the dream is spinning in your soul, calling you forward, and yet the works are taking a toll

summoned into purpose to reap what he promised, what you desire is noble and honest.

Co-laborers needed to level up your fields, plow, plant water, harvest to yield

your visioning growth well manifest layer, spirit to rest with all you invest

a fresh season upon you waiting to flourish, requiring your faith and works to nourish.

Are you ready to repeat your harvest?

the question that I want to follow up with is this understanding of Alliance. And how this masterpiece, which I truly believe is marriage as well. And this, the bride and the bridegroom, that's literally why he came. That's why Jesus did what he did. Um, in, in the knowing that it was going to bring together the bride and the bridegroom again, and the church to become everything that's intended to be in the veil to beat.

But how do you feel from an alignment space of mind, body, and spirit? What have you been taught or learned about your physicality, your mentality, your spirituality, your emotional, being, your intellectual being, how do you put all of those together in that spiritual masterpiece? Well, first of all, congratulations on the book that is so exciting, so exciting.

I think there's a beauty. Transparency. I think that's what you're doing in, in the book that you've released. I think that's what we're trying to do. And I think that's what draws people to what we're able to say, uh, and to speak into people's lives. I know that there's a big difference in nakedness and transparency.

Um, EV everybody, uh, can't see you naked because they can't have. Nakedness, uh, because they can see you. Uh, but transparency is see-through you. Uh, and so God can, can see me in that naked state because that's how he created us in the beginning that we were naked and unashamed. But from that standpoint now for others, to be able to see us, it's the transparency that then allows them to see God in us and see themselves in us to be able to see.

Through the nakedness to see what the heart, what God has done in, in heart transformation. In regard to your, your question of alignment, uh, mind, body, spirit, uh, all those different pieces. Um, I am now, uh, 52, I'll be 53 in December. My wife just turned half a hundred. Uh, and so we're now entering the third, the third quarter of our lives.

Uh, and I feel like we're just getting started. I think that aligning. Uh, for us is, uh, this, this idea that some people are trying to figure out how to balance everything. Uh, and I don't believe, uh, Tamar did everything is supposed to be balanced. I think people, things are supposed to be prioritized and aligned.

Uh, in other words, Uh, I have, uh, a spine and I have vertebrae in my spine, uh, and I don't need my vertebrae to be balanced. Uh, I don't need them to all be the same. I need them to be aligned where they are supposed to go. One of those little thing. I'm talking spiritual car chiropractic work right now. If one of those bones becomes unhinged or if one disc moves above the other, like all of that, that's super dangerous because certain things aren't meant to be balanced.

People say, how do you balance your career and your marriage? I don't, my marriage will always come before my career. How do you balance your marriage? And. I don't balance it. My marriage will always come above my parenting. And what happens is somebody is watching this right now and they're saying no, but my kids this or that or the other, that's why you unbalanced and you're imbalanced because you don't understand the difference between prioritizing and aligning.

Overbalanced some things are not meant to be balanced when you balance something by definition, you are trying to give equal value to something else. I'm trying to balance my marriage and balance my career. I'm trying to say my career is just as important as my marriage and God looks at that. And he says, sir, ma'am, you're out of order.

And so when I look at life and I look at it, I look at spirituality. I look at physical, uh, wellbeing. I look at mental health and wellness, all those different things. I am now looking to not try and balance everything. I'm trying to prioritize everything so that it can come into alignment so that I could run the race that's set before us knowing that when things are placed in their proper place, um, I can then have better balance in the overall picture of what life is supposed to be.

So powerful friend. This is so good. I think as you guys continue in towards your ministry and serving you guys are both now pastoring a church, or you're traveling and past. We are traveling and we are pastors that definition of pastoring, uh, is our, our ministry has always kind of been bigger than the four walls of the church.

And I don't have a better way of explaining that it's we are pastors to the music business. We are pastors to people without churches, where pastors to people in churches, we're pastors to marriages. We are. That's just who God has called us to be, to be pastors. And we don't have a definitive location at this point or a definitive name or logo or any of that.

It's just right now, we are very evangelistic and we go where God sends us, we do marriage conferences. We, we do online things. And I don't know if God has purpose for us. To do a charge, a, a, a one location or multiple location thing, but, uh, I want to be in his will and I want to be where he desires for us to be as a couple.

And I think part of, uh, Tamara from artists, because. We don't look like normal church, my wife and I that's part of the challenge of what does church or what does ministry look like for us? Because we speak together a lot. Um, this interview would have been a whole lot better if I had her with me because that's, you know, we, we, because we I'm telling her stories when she could be right here telling those same stories and there's.

You know to that. And so, uh, but, uh, Mary's masterpiece right now is kind of our, our ministry baby. And we're just trying to get as many people, uh, to, uh, get a million marriages saved as possible. Uh, people committed to not divorcing and, uh, people who have been divorced and want to be married again, or that are married to good, to have them committed to, uh, to the covenant of marriage.

Uh, and that's our starting point where we are right now. So we are pastoring marriages, but we also have lots of people, uh, around the world that I think would, would consider us to be pastors as well. And I think that's so beautiful and, and really, I believe a call of however you want to say it, but the church in this season, uh, you know, we talk about the esters versus for such a time as this and people drop that all the time.

Truly any time is for such a time as this because we're breathing in God's. So grace us with another day. And so there is time and that time is the present. And I believe that the four walls of the church were really shaken and they're always being shook. But last year, specifically with COVID, it gave people this new idea that church doesn't necessarily have to fit in four walls.

And I don't believe that God ever intended for that to be the case. Anyway, otherwise Jesus would have gone to the same temple every single day and he didn't. He was all over the map and he brought people with him. And so, um, to speak to the fact that he calls the, um, those who are lame, right? He calls those two are the poor popper.

He calls the people who are trying to live a counterfeit life. Into his culture into his church. And he did it with the tax collector and he did it with every single disciple. They were all imperfect, we're all imperfect. And so for us to go out into the world and allow his glory to be seen, I think is actually more of the call, more of the discipleship concept that needs to happen in the church where you can travel and showcase.

Cause if it's just for your community and we're churching the church where we really helped. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and that's, that's so good. And, um, I do believe, you know, I believe in the X two charts where people went from house to house and they shared everything and nobody had any need. Um, I also believe, you know, that we shouldn't forsake the gathering of saints.

And so I do, if it's important for, for us to get together, do community together. Uh, and I, I think that, like you said, Uh, when church doors, uh, were unable to meet, you got to find out that the church is either alive in you and wherever you are, or that you'd think churches and actual building. And so, um, I don't know what that looks like, honestly, in the future, moving forward.

Uh, I do know that, uh, we have a big, big, uh, a big mandate on us to help reach the lost, uh, and there's a, uh, uh, a world of people out there who I do. Christians too. I want to enhance them and enable them to have better lives while at the same time, I need to make sure that people who are lost are found.

And so I think that is the go and make disciples, not allow them to come and then make disciples. Once they get here, somebody got to go. And so. And, you know, I think too, as you're saying that, I'm thinking through, you talked about the marriage, you talked about the divorce, you talked about those who are married again.

I think there is the concept of obliterating shame, which is so connected to lack of intimacy in marriages, even marriages who have never experienced adultery before there is a component of shame that's being carried in from broken sex culture that is being established because of, you know, sexual traumas because of, uh, pornography because of addictions because of a fatherless, you know, nations that were being.

Raised in. And so there is a conversation that has to happen so often even before marriage that I feel has not really been instigated. I mean, I don't remember ever having a birds and the bees conversation even about. And so it has to start if we want our intimacy to really be embraced in marriage, we have to get intimate with ourselves and value ourselves before we ever try to give of ourselves to a significant other, who we can't even stand naked before ourselves.

Right. And so I think that there's a whole component of what you guys are doing that really is to speak to shame and that mission of obliterating shame, which is truly my heart. Yeah, I, I I'm a hundred percent, uh, I think that you have people that don't know the difference between guilt and shame. Guilt says, this is what I did.

Uh, shame said, this is who I am. And when you take on something that says, this is who I am, that is a whole different place of feeling guilty about something, but then you didn't start to take on the persona or the, the effects of, because I was abused, therefore, Um, abused or I'm damaged. I'm invaluable. No, that happened to you, but that's not you, that's not who you are.

It's a part of who you may have ex what you have experienced, but that does not make that who you are. Does it make you a victim? So all of those different pieces to the puzzle? Definitely. Uh, we have to kind of redefine intimacy. Um, my wife and I, uh, we would say that if you were to take I'm a words, guy, words, mean everything.

Uh, and even in, uh, taking bits and pieces, if you say the word intimacy, um, and you use it as in to me, see, uh, I want you to be able to, uh, into me, see God or into me, see your spouse. I want to be able to see. Through you, I want to be able to say into you, I want to be able to have deeper connectivity to you because intimacy isn't just a sexual thing.

Intimacy is being able to connect, uh, with the spirit, uh, and, and with the soul as well as with the flesh. And so, yeah, so powerful as you were talking, I had the vision of you and your wife actually going nation to nation and actually covering doorframes of people's homes like they did on past. And just you guys literally coming, and it's not even about you having to necessarily go into that intimate space of the house, but just in your presence alone, you're going to be proclaiming his name across the doorframes of houses and homes across the world.

So I thank you for your ministry. I thank you right there. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's, it's amazing. Uh, and it's a conversation that more people I think are going to step in confidently to be able to secure their identity and not worry about the story that's attached to it. But again, giving him the glory based on him using every single piece for.

And so what's, what's the next song coming out when, when this manager in, in Montel coming back to play, there's a lot that we're dreaming of right now. I mean, there's a lot of, uh, television commercials, like, uh, currently have a general television commercial with Shaquille O'Neal right now is generating a lot of buzz.

Um, I have a desire to do a jazz album. Uh, I have, uh, you know, I released it. Yeah. I got the hat, the hat line. So, so there's, there's a lot of things that we're, that we're dreaming of and that we're, uh, we want to see God, I don't want to leave this earth with anything that God placed inside of me. Uh, not one song, not one idea, not one, uh, movie role, like everything that God placed in me.

I want him to get it out of me. And so that's why we're focusing. On multiple areas, but still committed to making sure that with God at the forefront of it, if he's not going to get glory from it, then we don't need to have anything to do with it. So any albums, any music, any touring, any speaking, anything that we're doing?

We're asking God, do you get glory from us doing this? And then when we find out and he says, you know, I'll kiss that. Or I'll, I'll put my stamp on that. Then that's just the direction that we move and up, I've learned and I'm still learning. And I'm hoping that people maybe around that are watching this also learn.

Some people can be good at lots of different things. You know, there's this, you know, Jack of all trades master of none, and I've always thought, you know what? I'm good. A lot of I'm okay at a lot of different things and not really good at one thing, but I don't believe that I don't believe I have to do just one thing.

I think I'm very good at mentoring. I think I'm very good at speaking into marriages. I think I'm very good. At pastoring. I think I'm very good at loving my wife. I'm very good at spending time with my kids. I'm very good at grandparenting, a big popping. Um, I'm very good at creating, uh, creating. I'm very good at songwriting.

I'm good at a lot of different things. And so, um, I think I'm beyond the fear of man of telling me, because I'm good at this. This is the only thing that I should be doing. Uh, I don't, I don't want to be in that box anymore. I would rather be free to do everything that God has allowed me to do and to see and to experience, uh, and know that I'm still focused on I'm laser focused on whatever the task is before me.

Uh, I'm still a leader in that area, but I also recognize that I have been given many gifts to be able to utilize. And I'm selling myself short. If I try and do just one thing before. That's the one thing that you're good at. Yeah, this is so powerful. I just, I am really passionate about faith driven entrepreneurs and faith driven leaders.

And I just had a conference this past week. I, I share this with them and I share it often because I think it's so necessary is to understand that Jesus never niched or knee shade or whatever you want to call it. Like he didn't, he didn't do that. Even as a carpenter, even as a learner of the gospels, when he was in the temple at 12, right.

He was a multitude of things. He was a teacher, he was a brother. He was a steward. He was a speaker. He was a laborer. He, he was a traveler. He was a nomad. So many things

right. So he, he did all these things and it's the knowing of the niche is it is less about what we do and more about who we are and who we be. And therefore we get to be all of the things because we're made in his image. And when we're made in his image and he plants a creative spirit, which all of us are creative.

No one is excluded from that. You get to bring in people of every genre, every age, every ethnicity, every. Intellect anything in order to serve them because that's what he's calling us to do ultimately, is to make disciples. And so could you, every single person that comes to Montel, are they going to like your jazz music, maybe not, or is everyone going to wear your hat?

Maybe not. Is everyone going to go to your marriage conference? Maybe not. But think about just in those three genres, how many people you've been able to serve based on the ripple effect even of your marriage and your.

I think he's frozen. I know that he is receiving this right now in Jesus' name, wherever he went and he froze up. But I have to say you guys, this was an amazing podcast. Montel and Kristen Jordan are incredible human beings. I can't wait to connect with them deeper and I'm so honored to have him on the show today.

I love you guys. Thanks for tuning in.

Hey, y'all it's me again. I hope in today's episode, you sent an ignite to an Ember within you, something mentally, physically, emotionally, or spiritually moving that creates and sustains a fire within your journey. Before you go, let solidify the flame. I'd love for you to take a step right now and declaring your takeaway by snapping a pick of the episode.

You tended to share your sparked moment and tag me at and faith. Podcasts or me personally at Tamra dot and dress on. Instead, I hope that I can keep you accountable and also share you with the greater community of the fit and faith podcast listeners. We're totally in this together community over competition is the motto, right?

I'd also be incredibly grateful if you took an extra second to leave a review on iTunes or your podcast listening app, I'd love to feature your thought in the next episode and give you and your passion project, a big shout out, you know, I'm a writer. I love words and I can't wait to read what you have to say.

I'm ready to fuel the plane with you together. And until next time blessings over your joy health, well, and wholeness tune in next time.

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