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The Light Within You with Katie Moon




God brought Katie Moon and I together when we met in Costa Mesa, California at a Christine Caine conference. She is from North Dakota, so it is definitely a God thing we connected. Our friendship has evolved and I have seen her as a teacher and a mentor. We talk about the light and the dark in this podcast episode in all the ways we live as women.

Key Takeaways

How God led me to seminary school

All about Katie's devotionals

So many biblical knowledge gems

Identity fitness

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About Katie:

Hi! My name is Katie Moon, and I am a Biblical researcher, writer, and artist. After a career as a professional illustrator, I "happened" into seminary (a story in itself!). After a few years of seminary study, I stepped aside from traditional Bible education to blaze another learning trail. This new path was spearheaded by the Holy Spirit and built upon research methods and models adapted and advance throughout thousands of research hours. I officially founded my non-profit org, In Black and Light, in January 2017 (though the work began in late 2012), where I conduct perpetual behind-the-scenes research, write, build online Bible courses, and am working to reach and equip as many as possible in Biblical literacy and their identity in the Christ. Most recently, I have begun working toward marrying my art and research backgrounds to create something totally new. Stay tuned for more details (expected late 2021)โ€ฆ I am married to Garrett, a fellow-designer and entrepreneur, and together we live the wild adventure of parenting three growing boys. Our family lives and works from Bismarck, ND.

Where to Find Katie:

katiemoon.net


Show Notes: The Light Within You With Katie Moon

I am so excited right now. You guys have no idea what's you're in for, for the next hour with my sweet friend, Katie moon. I was so excited that she was my guest on the podcast today because I often it lasts it season. Anyway, I've been interviewing a lot of strings. And so it feels really relieving to know that my community is in really safe keepings with you and your spirit and, um, our sisterhood and to just catch up, I'm so excited about this time to be able to just shed light, no pun intended.


We'll get into that in a minute on all of the things that are Katie moon. Uh, you guys, she's a. I mean, I can jump into so many things, but we're going to definitely have to talk about the first time we met and what has flourished in our relationship since then? Thank you for being here. Yes, it is an honor to be here.


I'm so excited to be here. I've just been excited the last two days as it's been getting closer. And just thank you. Thank you so much. You're welcome. I feel like since the first time we met you guys, we went to the, she speaks conference. Gosh, was it four years ago now? Three years ago. I think we technically met at Christine cane.


Oh, that's right. Even better. I'm so glad you reminded me of that. Oh my gosh. Okay. So you guys, that was a crazy story just to get there, but I knew absolutely no one flew across country to Costa Mesa, California, to a Christine Christine Caine conference about preaching and teaching. And I had no idea.


Going, I had no idea why I was there, what I was preaching or teaching about. I just came to know the Lord a few years prior to that, and was still in like my becoming, I always say becoming, but my becoming phase of my faith and I run into you in the outside foyer. And we kind of just like buddied up the rest of the conference.


But I remember being in completely like enthralled by the language that you used. Hm. Um, your sense of confidence and your connectivity to, to the holy spirit. I remember my first impression of you. I, it was like, it sounds silly to say, but I remember just feeling like this zap, like I'm supposed to meet this person.


Like, it just hit me, like there was this knowing and I was immediately intrigued by you. And I could tell that. We kind of ran at the same pace and on the same level. And I was from the beginning, excited to me. That's so awesome. And I love that case has been a huge word in my life in the last couple months.


So it's funny that you say that three is because yes, we definitely are both super Sonic. Um, we both have a lot of energy and a lot to give based on what we've been given, um, from God and from our marriages and just from life in general, I think. Um, but I think. My pace and, and learning how to be more like Mary while also maintaining my Martha innate spirit, um, has been something I've been leaning into a lot.


So I'll be curious as we're talking today and catching up, if you, if you can sense that. Okay. I love it. So you guys, Katie is she's filled with so much insight, so much wisdom that the next time we got together, which was at the she speaks conference, we shared a space. We actually shared a tree house, which is even cooler.


Stay in the cookie cutter hotel. We had a tree house. Yes. Um, we were talking about the books that we were both presenting at the she speaks conference. Um, and so I want you to be able to kind of share some wisdom on what that book was and maybe even share if something has become since then. Um, I'm super curious.


Wow. Okay. So at the time I was coming to present a book that I was titling when God created lights, it, uh, I believed that what it was going to be was either a, like, not a novel in the fiction sense, but a non-fiction. Big kind of theological book. Um, I was also open very much to the idea of, rather than like this chapter book, it was going to be curriculum like Bible study curriculum that would potentially have corresponding videos to it.


So presently it is not a book. Um, it is, but it isn't video formatted. Um, it's an eight week in depth Bible. Course, I call it because it's beyond a traditional Bible study. Um, and you do print your own pages and kind of make it into a book, but in the present moment, it is, it is in video format. However, um, print format.


Is on the horizon soon. So I love that. I love that so much. And I know that I think I have access to that. I need to circle back because I'll tell you honestly, when I think about Katie and I think about her theological background and the language that she first came to me with when she was explaining her book.


I felt like I was, um, a minion in, um, a professor's mind and like, just circling and like Thomas Edison's brain talking about light, no parallel to the fact that he created essentially the light bulb. But you, you just had a depth. Like I said, that I, I wanted to tap into. Super still enthralled by the way that you teach.


And the way that you get super granular is now how I want and need to understand the Bible verses at the time I was like a waddler and a toddler and my faith. And so now I feel like God has just really positioned me to a place of desiring that educational sense in learning about the word and learning about, um, that God, while fundamentally.


Simple. And we think about light is like, it has a simple element to it. It's either light or it's dark. Right. But you have taken just such a context in the start of light, even from creation all the way to where it is today. Um, so I I'm definitely have to get access to that course. What's the name of it?


Is it the same as the title of the book? It is it's called when God created light and the subtitle is reconsidering the beginning. What really happened and how this changes everything. So good. And I always think of light. Um, when I was being, I guess, mentored, I should say, cause I wasn't coached, um, by who I always call my fairy godmother.


She always talks about how light was actually created at inception of birth and in utero when the egg and the sperm come together there. Chemical reaction of light. And so I think that there's such parallel to light lights in the start of creation and also simultaneously in the start of creation. Like only God, like right.


Only God. Wow. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. First of all, um, backtracking a little bit to what you said about how you're hungry for depth. Now, I just wanted to comment that I feel like that is happening in the church at large right now. Like, I feel like this is such a time. For this course, people are hungry for deeper for more.


And, uh, so I feel like you're not alone there. Like this is a thing that's happening in our country and probably globally, globally as well, but as far as light and in the beginning, that's really where my research journey on life began. Um, you know, that's, uh, I decided I was going to start researching light for a number of reasons, which we can get into if you want.


Um, but when you're a researcher and particularly of the scriptures where you start, especially when it's a theme or a word study, is you go back to the first mention of the word. In the scriptures. And so I remember I had actually started this late at night when one night I was in bed and I was thinking, where is the first dimension of light?


And it was before I even did like a software search or anything. It was just off the top of my head. And immediately, you know, in the beginning, God created light popped into my mind and I was. Whoa is that like, because I was curious very much about the concept of walking in the light at the time and that's really where I was getting to.


And so when I was like, okay, the first mention of light and scriptures is Genesis one. It was very interesting. All the way back there is that the beginning of this journey of what it means to walk in the light and lo and behold, that's what I definitely discovered it to be. And it's at the inception of the scriptures.


Right. And, uh, has very much to do with what we are. That is so beautiful. And as you're saying, and I'm like putting ourselves back in the log cabin and the tree house and experiencing, you know, even just like that wine night with my husband who came and visited us for one night and stayed with her totally random.


But it's this knowing that there is, there is always a big. And then there is the evolution of all of the grandiose, but the difference in evolution, um, and how some people might look at it from a scientific perspective, rather than a faith perspective is that God had a plan. And that is like so reassuring to me and allows me so much trust into like stepping into tomorrow is that it's already been planned.


So as you talk about walking in the light, I want you to like, take us back to like pre Katie research phase. Talk us through kind of a bit of your testimony. Where were you, how have you been like kind of grown in your face? Because I think being a research like research Theo, theologian research storyteller, if you will, who you are and a teacher by nature, there's, there's gotta be a root element to that.


So I'm so curious how. Evolved. Absolutely. So I was originally, I thought I was going to grow up and be an artist and I very much did you still are? I won't get into that, so true. Yeah. Yes, yes. We can talk about that more, but, um, I, uh, got my bachelor's degree in graphic design. Went on very quickly to become a commercial illustrator.


Um, and that whole thing. Um, but what happens? I'm trying to be succinct here, um, which I'm not always, that's not my strength though, is, you know,


oh, there's so much we could talk about. Yeah. Okay. So started out as an illustrator, did that for, I think about eight years, but two years before I kind of stopped that portion of my work, um, or push, pause on it, I should say, um, I happened into a seminary classroom. I thought I was so busy at the time. I had really little kids.


I was working almost full-time as an illustrator. I was doing all kinds of volunteer work. Um, and, and so. I saw this Bible class and I thought, well, that sounds interesting. And it was through the church and I didn't look into it. Beyond that. And, um, I had to pay for the course, so that should have been clue.


Number one. Um, and it was located at the new local seminary that should've been clue. Number two, but all I knew was I was going to some Bible study. That's it. So I go to my first class. This is about 10 years ago now. And I walk out of that first class, literally hyperventilating. I can't breathe. I'm panicking because I'm going, I can't do this class because what happens in that class is they handed out a syllabus.


When they handed out the syllabus, I'm going, why does this class have a syllabus? What is not a Bible study? I'm going to be writing papers every week and a 20 page paper. At the end of the semester, I'm gonna be taking quizzes every week. I'm going to be having a final exam. I'm going to be reading hundreds of pages a week and not just light reading.


This is intense, heavy reading, and I'm going. And I'm supposed to continue working and being a mom and all the other things. Right. So, but because I had already paid them. Oh this class and it was a start-up seminary. I did not feel like I could take my money back and not do it. So I stayed. So all of these things had to align for me to enter seminary.


Like I would never have thought I had the capacity for that. Had I just gone searching for it or that's the cool thing that like, God knew that about you too. And it was presented the way that it was. Yeah. State of mind that you were in kind of like discombobulated to be like now is the time, because if you would put all of the stuff down on a piece of paper, It doesn't make sense that you would also be able to stretch your capacity to do something else.


And I think that that's a message in and of itself for so many people who come around and are like, you're so busy and I'm like, I'm so intentional with my time and with what I do when I do it. And if something comes into play, I say, no, if it's not in alignment with what that has me to do, but I will tell you new door opportunities are open.


All the time. And for some reason, somehow, like we're looking at even starting back our home church, I'm like, when, how how's it going to happen? But my heart is telling me it's the right thing to do and I'm yearning for it. And so there's just, you say yes to things and God creates the capacity not, huh?


Yes, exactly. I mean, I mean, I don't even know how long it was, but very quickly I went from. Hyperventilating. And I cannot do this to being madly in love with the coursework, with that intense level and that depth of work right in the middle of my mess. And it was just like, it hit something deep in me.


Like you were saying, like, you know, in your heart that was fulfilling on an, in a different way than my art work was at that time. And it was like, It was like a, a part of me was being completed, so to speak, like, I believe we're complete, but it was just like, there's something about me and the way I'm created that has to do this.


And so. You know, within a couple years, I actually ended up pushing pause in my art because I, I had another baby and I've kind of found that I can balance about three big things at a time. Um, me personally, so I had my kids, I had my art career, I was running my own business. I had an agent, um, and I had.


Seminary, which for those of you who don't know, I, before went to seminary, I thought seminary meant school to become a pastor or priest. Seminary is simply can mean. Um, or it not that I can mean seminary simply means graduate school. Cool. For theology, something related to the study of God. So it's it's graduate school.


I was getting a master's degree. Okay. By accident, by the way. So I had art, I had my kids, I had seminary. And now all of a sudden I had a newborn baby and your marriage, right? Not just popping out babies, popping out babies. There was a, there's another, there's a man and Adam Anthony. Speaking of which that man was like, Katie, I think Benton.


Um, it's his own category right now. Like, you know, it's a newborn baby. And so something has to give, like, everything was just, nothing was going well at the, at the moment. So at that time I knew it had to be my art, that it needed to remain seminary. And so here I am 10 years later, never having stopped tense research journey.


I stopped seminary, but, um, I'm still going with that and actually looking at now, bringing art back. I love it. Well, you've been doing art too. And so like with the graphic design piece, I mean, one of the things I met you, I had this like one idea, right? Because even if you spend the amount of time that we did together over the three-day weekend, I got to know you really well.


And then fast forward via Instagram, it was a few months later, she starts throwing out this like graphics and I'm like, where did this come from? I was like, oh, wow. To do this thing. I'm like, this is amazing. Do you mean? And of course my entrepreneurial brain is like, you can create a business, you can do this thing.


And you're like, I already did that. That's not the intent, I'm just sharing, but you've allowed it to like evolve into this new thing. And the thing that I've just been enamored with specifically as a mom and a mom of faith and raising children in a Christian home is the advent calendar storyline, all that, that you did as well, which I think.


So beautiful. Tell them about that. Yeah. So I love Christmas. That's really kind of where its roots are. Um, I've been obsessed with Christmas forever and, but I would say. Eight nine years ago, I found an advent series online. It was called truth in the tinsel. I think you can still get it. And it was very appropriate for the first two years of when my kids were younger and what it was was every day, there was a little Bible.


And then there was an, there was either a craft or a coloring activity. I was way too busy to do a craft. My kids, they could color in a little Christmas ornaments, what it is just the paperwork. So I'm like, okay, I can handle this. So it would be just, we'd read a little Bible verse. There'd be maybe three sentences of a little devotional, again, very elementary.


Coloring this ornament, they colored. And then as Christmas drew near this tree, and I would make it out of wrapping paper and just hanging on my wall, it would fill up, you know, until we got to Christmas and it was all full of these ornaments. My kids had colored. So I had done that for years. And. Last year?


No, about two years ago now, I, it was just feeling too elementary and we'd been doing it long enough that I, I, and I have now quite far my research journey too. Right. And so my understandings of deep end any fault and all of that. And so I just thought I want to do, I want to do something different. And at first it was really about my own kids.


Uh, but I decided to. Make allow it to be for everybody. And I it's now reproducible and you can buy it on my website. And I think on Etsy too, so yeah, kind of amazing, you know, and it actually very much mirrors the same timeline of that one did on the daily, but it's now with my own little devotional written is really incredible.


And you also had the other division. That was one of the things when I first met you, you had. Already like self-published and I think I, I have like the copy. That's a copy. Like it literally says coffee across it. And I like hold it so treasured, because this is really amazing that I have this version because I know it's been reiterated.


I know that there's been more that's evolved since then, but it is it's, it's a. It's a quick read in the sense that it's a small book, but like she said, with the understanding of seminary and the depth that she had access to, she writes from the same depth. And so I want people to start like having a bit of the revelation that you shared with me on that long weekend and that I just always come back to you for, I can tell.


That if I had a question biblically, if I needed support or prayer in a depth that it's outside of the traditional, honestly, I'm going to say church. Um, because it's, there's no sugarcoating when you come to Katie, like, Katie's like, this is the role. This is the real, let's find out the root and the depth.


And, and I value you so much for that. So I want others. Similar revelation. So share kind of what that has become for you. And I'm sure it's new things since we spoke last, but I'd love for you to just get into the depths. So I think I'll start a little bit with my, why my, why I came into becoming a biblical researcher other than happening into seminary.


Like I could have gone from the end of that schooling into a different direction altogether, you know, but Y I, it was about biblical research. Um, and then I want to talk to you a little bit about. Some of the theory that I've developed as far as hermeneutics, um, biblical interpretation and, and how to do that.


I'm very passionate about biblical literacy and, um, Understanding how to interpret the scriptures because there's very much a science to it and also an art. And it's very crucially important, I think. Um, so, but first my why, um, if that's okay. Is that okay please? That's perfect. That's perfect. Cause I think, um, this, uh, yeah, I think that'll help make sense of some of my journey.


Um, so about 10, 11 years ago, I kind of woke up. In my own self to a sin issue now at this time? No, it was, it was after I started seminary. So it was about 10 years ago, uh, shortly after started seminary. So I'm getting very, very serious about my relationship with God. At this time, I'm spending lots and lots of hours in the scriptures and learning about faith, learning about God and living the life that the Bible talks about was becoming very important to me.


I'm not just living it on the surface and performing all the right things, but like having like the fruit of the spirit, having the perfect peace, the Bible says as possible having. Freedom that the scripture say is possible to live in. And so, so much of the internal stuff, right? So I'm becoming very serious about this.


And at that time I woke up to what I called at that time, a sin issue in an area in my thinking that was inconsistent. And, and what I believed was, um, Wrong, I guess with, or didn't align with the life of peace. Perfect peace, perfect joy, perfect love. Right. And I don't ever get into specifics about it because I feel like it's just distracting and it doesn't matter to be literally any sin issue under the sun and the sill applies.


So at the time I remember kind of catching myself with a certain thought pattern and going, I can't believe, I just thought that, oh, gross. Like, um, I'm not going to think like that anymore. I'm not going to have that thought right. And it was about two weeks later. I caught myself doing it again. And I remember again going, oh no, I wasn't going to think like that.


I need to stop this and long story short. After about two years, it became a two year journey of fighting this exact thought and trying to stop it is what I mean by fighting it. And in that two year, time period, it's it. And I want to say this too. I had been having this kind of thought process in my mind for many, many years.


It was by anybody's standards. It's a normal way to think. Ultimately, but it wasn't the perfect piece, you know, that I knew was possible. And so I wanted to get it out of me. And so anyway, in that two year journey, I'm intensely in the scriptures. So this isn't like some rebellious period I'm having, I'm like chasing God and wanting to understand him.


And, um, I at that time was trying everything I'd ever been taught. Any everything I could think of, any pastor teaching about how to live free or have peace, any Bible teacher, any functional I'd read any book I'd read. I was trying it all. And it's actually from this side of things, kind of comical, all the things I try to just be.


Yeah,


wrong, but it's a journey for sure. So I kind of came to the conclusion after time. Like nothing is working that I've been taught, what's missing. And the one thing I really still trusted at this point was not. What humans were giving me, but I trusted the scriptures. Like I just had this instinct. God's got an answer for me in here because there's a testimony for, uh, there's testimony all throughout these pages of this life that I can live.


So somehow the answers in the scriptures, I don't know if anybody at that point in my life, I didn't know of any buddy who gave me an answer that works. Um, and so I decided I needed to go searching for the answer myself and scriptures, and you have to understand in seminary right at the time. So I'm also equipped to begin to do that at a level that is, um, atypical, I guess I've already been through hermeneutics classes, I'm taking Greek, you know, I'm, I'm doing all of this stuff, so I'm very equipped to do it.


And so I began this ravenous journey, um, through the scriptures to try to just find the. How do I live in the freedom, you know, for which, I'm sorry, I'm trying to quote a verse and now it's gone, but how do I live in this freedom that I think I can live in? And so, um, so that's where it started in seminary.


I began. Yeah. Or I had an assignment. I had an assignment in John 11, which is the story of Lazarus being raised from the dead and in there, there's this interesting line that caught me, caught me off guard. It was not what my assignment was on. I was to write a paper on something with that narrative in John 11.


And so word comes to Jesus. That Lazarus is really sick and he, yeah. D says it, doesn't say they're going to go heal him or anything. Four days later, he says, okay, now we're going to go see Lazarus and the disciples, um, kind of rebel and say, no, we can't do that. They were just trying to stone you and Jesus.


His next words are what I got hung up on and what I'm still hung up on a decade later. And they are, I, I am so. To, um, using digital Bible that I'm using paper here. So that's okay. I love that. Just give me one moment here. I had it over here. I printed it off. Jesus says to his disciples, are there not 12 hours in the day?


If anyone walks in the day, he does not stumble. Because he sees the light of this world. If anyone walks in the night, he stumbles because the light is not in him. So it's very intrigued. And then, you know, then they ended up going on to Lazarus, but it was kind of like, what, what does that have to do with anything?


But I kind of had this hunch, like I. This like might hold my answer to the, how, like something about this idea of walking in the light. And so, yeah, I ended up going way above and beyond for this assignment. I wrote a multi-page paper and I remember highlighting a section saying this is my assignment, but because I did all this extra work about light, I'm going to include that.


Not a teacher's guide or over cheaper at all. I love it so much because when something sparks you and I think this is two goes to play in every realm of life, whether you're studying the Bible or you're really intrigued into technology and you decided to build Facebook, right. I'm going to use a non-Christian perspective right here.


God gives that to you. And whether you believe that it's from God or not, but when you become so ingrained in something, he has purpose in that. And so it's just, are you allowing it to be something that you hold in the light or are you keeping it something that's in the dark? So I love, I love that example and I have to, I will circle back to the story of Lazarus.


Um, not right now because we can come back to it. Cause this is so good. Okay. Keep going. So you have this thing, you have this massive revelation. Yeah. Interests, not maybe fully revelation at this. Yes. So a year after I write this paper, I sense this. Uh, knowing, I guess that I need to transfer schools. This was a, uh, seminary startup.


Um, and I, it had limited courses at a time and I wanted to expedite my degree and get my credentials in and move on with my life. Essentially just move forward and all the things. Yeah. Right. Like, come on, let's go here. So I started looking into transferring schools. Um, in that window, I had some friends who I was meeting with to pray with weekly and we would get into lots of theological discussions, lots of discussions about the Bible.


And, um, I was in seminary at the time. So I had, um, a lot to say in those discussions, I guess, but one of them finally said, you know what? You're a teacher. You should teach us instead of meeting for prayer, uh, explicitly, why don't we meet? And you just teach us and, um, Anyway, long story short there again. I said yes, because I just I'm like, yes, I know.


I know I'm supposed to be a teacher. I know supposed to be a Bible teacher. I didn't see this coming, but this seems right. And this seems like the right group started with, so I am in the process of transferring colleges, which ended up falling through. I had also at the same time, quit my seminary. I was at, um, it just, it felt right.


God calling me forward, you know, to another seminary. And I thought I was going to be starting that semester in this new seminary. Well, the classes I need to take as I was talking to admissions and had an advisor, the classes I wanted to get into immediately that semester, um, weren't available for a whole year.


So I had the decision to make, do I move forward with other classes right now? Or just wait and get into these. They were language courses specifically. I chose to wait. So all of a sudden I've quit seminary. That's dropped off my plates and I only have. Really one, one and a half categories of my three categories filled at the time because my baby's getting older.


So I'm staying at home with my kids. I'm no longer illustrating, but now I have this class to teach. What I thought was going to be this little devotional class when I told them, yes, I'll do it, but I'm way too busy with seminary. And all of a sudden that's gone all of a sudden my time's way opened up and like.


Now my say, you know, I've been really interested in this concept that I studied a year ago about lights and it has to do with some personal stuff. And I'm just really intrigued by it. Do you care? I was originally going to teach on a different subject, but, um, I, because of how things worked out, I just said, do you, is it okay if I teach on what it means to walk in the light?


I really want to look into that more. They were good with it. So, um, That was the first time I taught through what is now my course, when God created light, it is actually, excuse me, I'm going to be three courses. I, I taught an entire school year. And now remember, I think that in a year I'm going to be starting seminary, but by the time I got through teaching for an entire school year, and by the time we got through all this content and all this revelation that we learned, we were sitting at the end of the class, literally speechless, just shaking our heads, going, what in the world was that?


What did God just do? And as the teacher, and as the researcher, I'm going. This isn't just for us. This is just for, you know, for people. This is like, everybody needs this to be multiplied and, uh, get to more people. And so at that point I knew, like there was no question in my mind, I'm not going back to seminary.


This I'm going to immerse myself in this, um, in this work and this research and, um, At that point, I was thinking I'm going to write it into a book. And I think it was shortly after that we were at, she speaks. And so it ended up being about three more so sorry. As things go as a researcher, you know, I'm like, okay, Two months later, I'm like, okay, I'm going to now write all this stuff out that I learned.


It's going to be easy. I'm just going to, yeah, I've done all the research. I'm just going to write out what I know. And as I'm going to go back to the beginning of my class and that research, you know, of course, new layers of already developed in my research. I think I'm going to start typing and writing it up.


I'm starting to see, I'm just having questions like, well, it seems like there's a deeper answer to that, or I think I need to learn more. And so I ended up doing about three more years of research until it finally became the class it is now. And so. With all of that, that leads up to what your original question was as far as like some of my process and how I teach and the depth there.


And so, so when I first, the first lesson, really the first half of lesson one, um, we really go through hermeneutics and I've already kind of touched on that a little bit. Um, and that is a very much a cornerstone to the work I do. It's um, the biggest, uh, Oh, I don't game changers in, in the work I do. And, um, and the revelation I've been able to ascertain and receive as well.


So, um, Can I talk to them? Oh my gosh. I already am thinking about all the people that I'm about to send this to afterwards on going live. So it's amazing. Okay, great. So hermeneutics, first of all, and obviously if you take the course, you're going to get, uh, uh, a deeper dive into this, but hermaneutic comes from the Greek word to interpret.


Okay. And I'm going to, I'm going to read just a couple of things here for you. Um, It is the discipline of, sorry. The discipline of her hermeneutics refers to a method or theory of interpretation when you are a researcher. Like I am, you have, you must have a consistent systematic method for withdrawing truth from the subject or object you are researching without consistent method.


There's no plumb line for withdrawing truth about whatever we're studying. For instance, we see this in other areas of research, actually in every legit area of research, there is some level, um, there is hermeneutics for that area. For instance, in natural science, we learned in school about the scientific method, right?


There's this five step scientific method. And listen to the definition of it. It says a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century consisting of systematic observation measurement and experiment and the formulation testing and modification of hypothesis. So just to review, because this is very applicable to the scriptures as well, the five steps.


First you ask a question about the natural subject. Maybe it's a frog. Maybe it's a rock in natural science that you are wanting to understand better. First you ask the question of it. Set. Step two is you do your background research. You look into the subject. Step three is you construct a hypothesis. Set four is you test your hypothesis by doing an experiment to see if it holds.


And step five is you analyze the data and draw a conclusion. So these steps mirror precisely what I do on the daily hour after hour with a few additions, um, such as. Um, the holy spirit is an integral part of research and, and coming to understand and guidance through the scriptures. Absolutely integral, integral, inter integral.


Okay. Okay. Um, another, um, principle of interpretation that I've learned as I've gone, I was not taught it. I don't even know. No, that you could read about it in a book it's just through experience. I've kind of learned, this is the rule of location. And I liken this to, if we got a letter from somebody in England, they speak the same language as us.


Um, but they have different meanings for different words. And so if they're writing a letter and in the letter, they reference chips, they preference football, they reference. A number of things, but I want to make sure if I'm understanding my, if I want to understand my friend from England, well, I want to remember that in England chips are not potato chips, the French fries in England football, isn't, you know, NFL football, American football, it's soccer and so on.


So I've learned through my process of discovery that we also need to remember that God is in heaven and the scriptures. Penned by men. Right. But we know that they were breathed out by God. He is the ultimate author of the scriptures. And so having an understanding of middle Eastern, um, thinking, having an understanding of Jewish, Hebrew thinking, and 2000 ago, 2000 years ago, thinking is very important.


Um, absolutely. But ultimately what I've discovered is that we need to understand that the author. Wasn't middle Eastern. The author was of heaven, the author isn't God. And so we need to learn how to sort of understand what God needs from his perspective in different words. So one of the ways that actually, what was kind of my gateway, I guess you could say into starting to understand how important this was, was when I was studying the word glow.


And do lots and lots of words, studies. So it's important to remember that our, um, our translations are not the inspired scriptures, the original Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic are the inspired scriptures. So as often as we can, as much as possible, we need to reference those. And so I'm constantly doing original language studies.


And, um, so I was studying glory at the time and wanting to understand what that meant. I had kind of a concept in my mind already of what glory meant, um, you know, from church from Bible study and so on. But as a researcher, nothing is left. Like every stone, no stone is left in church. You go back and you really look at everything.


You just, you have to, if you want to have that consistent hermaneutic and be consistent in everything. Yeah. So with glory, what I found was that in the Hebrew, no, I'll tell you the Greek first, the Greek word for glory means opinion. Okay. That's interesting thoughts or opinion. Um, and in the Hebrew, it lifts very literally means, and this is the one we're most familiar with.


It means, wait. Or, and specifically, this is, this is kind of where things begin to sh began to shift for me as it dug into what does that weight mean? I began to see that most, the time when this word was used, it was referring to currency, like think of pounds in Europe. Right. And how money. Through history, um, been counted by weight and I began to see that this Hebrew, the origins of this Hebrew word were related to currency.


So this is where I make a hypothesis. You know, and, and, and my hypothesis was what if, because I do not believe that you can just pick, I can't pick the Hebrew over the Greek based. I don't understand what opinion has to do with glory. I am more of the mind sets that will, they must harmonize somehow. And it is our responsibility to figure out how so I, so I hypothesized what.


What if there is a currency in heaven that is made of the opinions of others. Okay. So what then you do as the researcher is you take that idea, like there's this some sort of spiritual currency that has to do with God's thoughts. Okay. So, so what you do is you take that idea. That hypothesis. It's not set in stone, it's still have a hypothesis and you go to every single use of glory from Genesis to revelation and you plug it in to see if it works.


If it doesn't work, you throw it out. But what happens more often than not is that it does work. What happens though, is our understanding of what glory is changes our understanding of certain passages change. But that's where I began to realize. Like from heaven's perspective when God is talking about glory, there's like some heavily economy that is happening around us.


And it makes sense when you think of things like being an error of heaven, being an heir of God, having an inheritance, like all of a sudden that begins to just shift. Uh, when you think about what the glory. Means. And so, um, I learned, I started to learn that there's this rule of location. That's extremely important and we can't wait.


So when we come to the scriptures, a lot of us have heard of the word exegesis, but fewer of us have heard of the word Isiah, Jesus, they're both. They both have the same, um, word Jesus in them, but they have a different prefects exit. Jesus has to do with drama, withdrawing. Drawing out the meaning. And I said, Jesus has to do with putting meaning into something.


So when we are studying the scriptures, for instance, what we want to do, if we really want to understand what God himself is saying is we want to do as little icy juices as possible. We want to take away. Any, um, pre understandings, we have any, um, theology we may already have. We want to hold that open hands to God, always to edit.


As he sees fit, we want to take away any cultural understandings we have. We want to take away anything we've been taught. We don't want to read anything into the text. We want the purest way to extract from the taxes to let all that go know that if that's true, if any of it's true, it's been holed up under the test of scripture.


And then we seek to just simply withdraw meaning. And so that's where this rule of location is. Like, if we're looking at this letter from our friend from England, like the best way to extract the correct meaning of letter is to go, okay, what does this mean? Where they're at? So, so that's a huge part of.


My methodology and you can see a glimpse into what I'm doing and you can imagine how it's kind of snowballed into quite quite the thing. Yeah. I imagine you, every single night, like falling asleep with a Bible, just open on your chest because there's no way that you can. Release it. And even when you go to church or you're having conversation with someone, or you hear a new worship song that comes out, or your kids have a question it's like, oh, a scientific method Progenics is about to come out.


Are you ready for this question? Cause I've got an answer. It's just going to take me a year or so to get back to you. It's incredible. And we talked about when you become, so hyper-focused on something, the gift that it is, and also what can feel like a huge burden. And so I am, I'm curious. What, how are you sharing this right now?


Beyond the course? Who are you teaching, who is sitting at your feet? Because I feel like you're a sensei and I just need to sit there and just like, receive like your first class. I want to know, like, how is this getting out into the world and like, what's your vision for it? And what's in the, in the making.


So the primary way it is getting out into the world right now is the course. Um, it is really been picking up speed as far as. Um, people taking it, um, talking about it. Um, I'm getting incredible feedback. I've had, um, some people with some notoriety now endorse it and want it to spread. Um, so that's the main way what I'm looking at now though, is putting it into print because I think for a lot of people in online course just.


Isn't on their radar or isn't a thing they would do, but a lot of people would still pick up a book. And so I'm nothing has officially begun yet, but that is a next step. It's really about multiplication right now. So right now it's about taking this content and giving it to as many. Demographics as I can.


So I'm not only looking at making kind of a book replication of this course for adults. I'm now beginning to look at getting it in front of children or making it accessible to children, really simplifying it, bringing my arts back, my art, my illustration, back in to do that. And, uh, I'm creating it for children, but I see bringing this to youth.


I see bringing it to the seminary level. I'd love to create a systematic theology volume of books. Um, there's just so many, that's like step number one that I see in front, it'll be making the next course and doing more speaking and stuff, but it's. That it's so incredible. And I, I could totally see the youth piece coming into play because I know how good of an artist you are.


You guys have to follow her on social media. You'll get a taste of a bit of that. And her website link is dropped. Your Instagram is dropped here. Um, I, I feel like I have a thousand more questions I could ask in my own, my own selfish, eagerness for word dissection. Um, but I love, I love, love. Vision of it.


And I remember when we first met, it was all about, I'm gonna make, I'm going to make these textbooks and I'm going to teach in this realm. And so to hear that that's still a part of it. And to know that you're, you've expanded your understanding before you even come to those. I think one of the things that as you were talking yeah.


Take note of is one, the process of writing and the time of writing and God's constraint and pace is so much different than ours. And so we had this eagerness, when we went to that conference, like this is revelation, it needs to get out right now. Now. Publishing an agent restraints that they create on their own timeline.


You can't get this book out for 18 months to three years, depending on when the publisher picks you up. And you're like, are you serious? The message is now the timeliness is now. But I feel like every time that a book comes to surface, uh, whether they wrote it in a month or they wrote it in three years, like the book I've been writing or 10 years, like you've been researching and, and creating.


God's timing is like exactly on time for it. And so that's where that trust piece comes so much in the play. When we think about pace and constraints that the world gives us versus the knowing and the plan, which circles right back to the very beginning of light that he had. Had since before we were even born and put here, um, I think the revelations parallel to the eagerness of people wanting that depth that we were talking about in society as a whole in the church as a whole in people and humanity as a whole.


Um, it's literally just going to be so beautifully meshed. So I'm excited for you. I want to be able to get it in the hands. As many as possible, I immediately was like, how can we get this into universities? Um, I know that that is definitely a possibility. I'm actually connected to, uh, some other authors who have it, their books and their books are not in the same premise as yours.


Definitely not our Magenics. And they've gotten it into different places. Also giving an opportunity for people to get certified. In something after they've gone through, your course could be something really unique as well for a pastor or for a ministry leader or anybody. So some extra little nuggets to think of album that you want to pick my brain on theology.


And I want to pick yours on business. Hey, God has a place and a purpose for every friendship and every year. Live under heaven. So I am here for you in that regard. Um, I do want to, I want to circle into. Your your outside of this, because I know that you are more than even just, um, a researcher and you know, you are, you are a mom and you are a wife, and I know you're an athlete and, and always working out and you put your mental health in a priority.


And so speaking into maybe a specific realm, that's touching you right now, or since you've been walking in the light, what wisdom could you give the people who are listening? Yes. So my why into all that I do has always been the how right. And I've said that. And so what my priority is. Before anything else when it comes to just life daily life is what I call identity fitness.


And I believe that it affects literally every area of our lives and the fitness or the balance or the health of literally every area of our lives. And when I talk about identity fitness, I, what I mean is. The practice of the truth, um, the practice of who we really are. And that's ultimately what I have discovered that for me, at least was missing in my understanding, I was not aware of what and who I am like the essence of what I am.


Found and believe is light. It's that light that was actually created on day one that sometimes throws people off because of day six, God made humans in the image of God. I won't get there. You got to take my class. Ultimately, what does plugging? She just doesn't have time. That's right. Okay. So ultimately identity fitness is about walking in who I really am walking, not with the concept that I am, something on the outside of me, whether it's my body, whether it's somebodies opinion of me, whether it's my career, whether it's the relationships I have.


And so on. My identity is within me. And, um, my identity is connected to God, but it takes a practice because being part of this world, we're constantly taught that who we are is outside of us. And so that practicing the truth. Practicing every single day, returning with an returning to the idea that actually I'm not a physical body.


I'm connected to one, but that's not what I am. Actually. I'm not the successes I have actually. I'm not the relationships. I mean, actually I'm not what people think of me. And that's been a huge, that's a huge thing for all of us. Uh, definitely been a huge one for me. Um, I'm, I'm not the way I do this or that.


Right. And returning into the wholeness that I already am believing it and walking it out in my life. And so, um, that's, that's my number one priority is that identity fitness, practicing it and constantly pursuing the growth that, that. That is powerful. Uh phrasiology and so paralleled with fit and faith, because I really believe that.


And I feel like faith is the full entity of who we are. It's actually the premise of how I teach business. I always say. It's in this entrepreneurial thumbprint that we exist. And what that thumbprint is, is first rooted in your, your identity. And if you don't know who or who's, you are the brains and, and the business that you create on the external is actually fallen is actually broken, is actually a mess.


I did it, I did it for years, so I get it. And it's part of my testimony, but I density identity identity. It says it's such a. Um, massive concept, but parallel to light, uh, parallel to love and parallel to our father, who is our creator. When you get to that, it goes back to one of our guests. Who's watching live, said, she said, this has been so intriguing for someone like me, who is simple.


And so it's to know that your simple mindedness is only because of lack of access. And so having access to this deep, deep piece of God's heart, which is what's been implanted in Katie, um, is something we all have the ability to. It's just the willingness, the fitness, the identity fitness that we put into practice.


And so it's incredible to watch you become stronger in that. No pun intended, but also intended, um, and also to be able to equip other people to do the same, because I think that that's the unlock to other people, fully being able to access and walk in the light. I want to do it. I want to do it better.


Yeah. Um, so incredibly powerful, Katie. I'm so grateful and honored to know you. I will have your okay. Researched indexed books in my shelf one day and I've got to get my certified walk in the light course under my belt as well. So you guys definitely touch base with Katie. Are you on Instagram? I am primarily on Instagram.


Follow me, follow me there. And in black and light.com in black and light.com is Katie moon, Katie or Katie moon. If you just remember my name, Katie. Oh, easy, easy. It all goes to the same. Yeah on Instagram. I'm Katie Abe, Abe, actually easy peasy. You guys get in touch with her today. All the links are already attached.


And again, I'm so grateful. I can't wait to share a Treehouse with you again. And it's so fun. Yes. Love me so much. You're welcome. Bye.

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