The Faith-filled Journey of Becoming – with Dave Hollis
Friends, we are all becoming something new and different-if we let God mold us. I talked all about this with Dave Hollis today. Enjoy!
OK, so I could jump into this conversation in so many different incredible takeaways, but I think one of the parts that really touched me was realizing that we all get out of bed and put our pants on the exact same way. Well, maybe not when I was nine months pregnant and needed help in that process. But beyond that, I was so honored to have just a real vulnerable conversation about personal things – mind, body, emotions, spirit, soul, health, wealth, business, fitness, faith, Jesus, community.
I mean, the list goes on, you guys. Dave Hollis is an A-list. He’s is… I’m trying to think of an analogy that goes with baseball because he’s a baseball fan and he coaches, and he loves his kiddos. Let’s just say he is someone you would want to invite to your own Tea Party, your own teatime. He’s got his Tea Time with Noah. You’re going to learn more about that when you tune in as well.
But I am just honored, honestly, to have the conversation, to enjoy it alongside each of you and the community members who showed up live.
And if you’re tuning in now for the podcast version, the Audible, just I hope you sense the energy. And more than anything, I hope you leave hearing the power that God has within our lives, even in the valleys, even on the mountaintops or in this conversation, even in the storm, in the sailboat, stepping out of the sailboat. Wherever we find you, I think Dave would partner with me in this prayer to know that you are going the right direction when you’re waving the white flag, submitting your life before our Father who can cultivate and make all things new.
Dave, I thank you so much for coming on, and I can’t wait for the listeners to gain wisdom and light from your time with us. All right, let’s go.
Dave Hollis Professional Bio:
Dave Hollis is the CEO of the Hollis Company, a company that exists to help people build better lives. He is a father to Jackson, Sawyer, Ford, and Noah. Dave hosts the podcast Rise Together , the #1 health podcast on iTunes. Dave was previously president of distribution for the Walt Disney Studios until he left to apply his experiences to the expansion of the Hollis Company. Dave is a member of the Motion Picture Academy and has been an advisor or board member of technology incubator Fandango Labs, philanthropy start-up Givsum, film charity Will Rogers Pioneers Foundation, Pepperdine’s Institute for Entertainment, Media, and Culture, and foster care champion National Angels. Dave and his family live in Austin, Texas, where he drives a 1969 Ford Bronco named Incredible Hulk and has a mini schnauzer named Jeffrey.
Reviews from his book:
“In Get Out of Your Own Way, my friend Dave has identified an important truth: believing certain lies about ourselves keeps us skeptical that we can ever change the trajectory of our lives. Thank goodness in this great book Dave also shares with us the tools that helped him change his own life so you can change yours too.” – JOHN C. MAXWELL, NEW YORK TIMES BESTSELLING AUTHOR AND LEADERSHIP EXPERT
“In this life-transforming book, Dave Hollis inspires us to take a good hard look at the lies we tell ourselves and flip them into reasons for real growth. It’s a witty, vulnerable, and truly thought-provoking work from a skeptic who became brave enough to change. A must-read in personal development.” – BRENDON BURCHARD, #1 NEW YORK TIMES BESTSELLING AUTHOR AND CEO OF GROWTH.COM
We are so grateful to have you on the community is… There’s a bunch of them actually in the other room, just to be completely honest, on our computers, so excited just to see your face and take a selfie with you on their screen, and you have a lot of the followers, and I am surely one of them. I’ve been following along your journey for the last year or so, and really in the last couple of months, became a fan, and it kind of sounds weird, especially to tell the actual person that… But my husband approves, we’re good on that level. And also, it really is because of your heart, the vulnerability and the transparency that you shared over the course of the last few months that has just drawn me into the Jesus within you, which is why you’re here on the set and faith podcast, and you guys… So many of you just wanted to know, how did you do this? And I said, I just asked a question. And honestly, I think we’re always so fearful of that, so before I go any further, ’cause I could literally give you your rap, she…
05:25 S1: You guys use a New York Time best seller. He is a speaker and a coach and a father of four, and so many things I’d rather you just go into sharing this white paper experience, which we’ll talk more about that you shared with friend and Burchard last week, who is Dave Hall, is…
05:44 S2: Well, I’m a father of four, I’m a… Well, I mean, first, I’m a child of God, I am a father to come in, I am a human being who is having a human experience and in real time, trying to, as you say, Fill out this blank piece of paper, that is the future of what I will become… As much as I have a bit of an idea informed in part by who I have been, I’m also taking a little bit of time because of big life changes and a little bit of the idea of like, hey, normal has been disrupted, so what should normally be going forward, I’m trying to be deliberate, intentional and patients in making sure that I actually define what next looks like. I spent 25 or so years inside of entertainment, I moved my family after having had a successful career inside of that space, the last 17 years of which I was at the walk, there’s any company to do some work inside of the hoist company with Rachel… Where we were trying to put tools in people’s hands that might afford them an opportunity to have a better, richer, fuller life.
06:53 S2: And I’m in transition in real time, moving away from this business that we worked on together to something that I will do by myself, and that’s exciting and terrifying, exhilarating and comes with a ton of fear, but I am here for it, and I’m excited that I get to be here today. So thank you for having me. Temporality.
07:15 S1: Yeah, my pleasure. So I think there’s so much that we could unpack and there’s so many different passion points that we align with, from parenting to faith to entrepreneurship, more recently in your journey though, and we’ll… We’re a little cart high level and we’ll go down and that white pay for a little bit more, but I love the fitness journey that you’ve been on, and the understanding and the knowing that your mind and your body and your spirit actually all have this crazy connective power intended by God that took me to deck three decades to pigot myself. So tell me about how this fitness journey has really flown into your faith…
07:58 S2: Well, I’ve had to ask myself who I’m becoming, and at the beginning of this five months of transition, that was a very, very difficult question to answer, because the imagination required when some of your primary identity is maybe taken away or changes in some way, the idea of casting a division can be hard, but once I was able to actually come up with Who do I hope to be, whether it’s in a year or five years or at the end of my life, I could then work backwards from that vision with what I would need to do every single day to try and actually become one step closer to the vision of that person, and so my health journey has been a reflection of trying to create habits and routines around how I’d have to show up today to get a step closer to who I’m going to be… And so when I say health, I’m not talking just about physical health, so of course that’s a part of it, it’s physical, emotional, relational, spiritual and mental health. All of them are important, and taking this holistic approach to being healthy has me in the healthiest state of my life, even though I’m also in the midst of going through the hardest thing in my life with the thing…
09:15 S2: How those things can co-exist, but my question of, Alright, what do I need in this season has really become a call to action or call to arms for what I need to do today to try and become this version of who I ultimately hope to become and so in each of my physical, mental, emotional, spiritual and relational health, I’ve tried to answer questions around who I wanna try and be… And so when it comes to mental health, I’m asking the question, What do I need in the season? I need help. Like actual professional help. I want someone to process with me all the things I’m feeling, I wanna read a lot of books to help me understand the emotions that I’m processing or the feelings that I’m having, the thoughts that are inside of my head when it comes to my spiritual health… Right, understanding that the connection that I can have to our creator and this power greater than me being something that I can anchor to on days where it feels unsteady or I feel unborn, having been pushed out into some waters that are happier than I might have necessarily hoped for has required me to ask you…
10:25 S2: So then what do I need to do? So sitting on a rock in nature inside of prayer every single morning after I move my body, sitting on my back patio having a conversation with God every single night as I attempt to create peace in my life, there are things that I’m just trying to… Every single day intentionally construct so that I can against these different dimensions of health show well for myself and create at the end of the day, integrity with who I’d hope to be.
10:55 S1: Yeah, I love that. I think the integrity piece is so important, and this is one of the reasons that everything that you’re establishing, and I’ve had even people say like, Is it just for show? And I’m like, Well, you could have that perspective, or you can go cry on a rock and listen to worship and cry out to the Lord, and this is the perspective of anybody’s lives, and so even thinking about how do I wanna prepare for this podcast when I never prepare for a podcast, let’s be real. I look at who you are, I ask you to come on and I’m like, Let’s have a coffee conversation and I don’t research anyone before I go to coffee with you, and so I realize that you’re human and we are all human. And the desires of our heart and the need is all the same, and so ultimately that understanding of what you’re doing behind closed doors and what you’re doing in the public eye, they both matter, but you’re creating this always becoming compounding effect of who God would have you be And so activating my body, spirit, soul, all the things all the time, is really what’s needed for us to show up as that form of best self or what you and Rachel would always say Is that made for more moment, and so you are made for more and what that maybe picture looked like even circa a year ago is probably drastically different than today, which is why therapy is great to have somebody to navigate those crazy waters with you, but ultimately it’s God who gets to help steward that boat and that sailing that you’re doing so desperately maybe in this season, and so I’m grateful that you’re just vulnerable on that, and I’m grateful that as we share more of our testimonies, we have availability to serve others in that, because there are surely other people walking through likely the same season right now, I’ve heard even just the divorce rate through covid has increased, which is interesting, and so if you don’t mind me just opening that jar of worms, ’cause I know that there are plenty of Rachel fans here and there’s still fans.
13:01 S1: What does that look like moving forward? Away from Hollis, Co… What is this white paper that you and God together, our writing… What does it look like?
13:10 S2: Well, I’m a fan of rituals to always will be so good news, we’re in great company in that respect, we’re gonna be partners for life and raising these course minis for sure, for sure. I will just to the previous point mentioned struggle thrives in the dark, and so the collective experience of grief that all of us are processing because of quarantine, the maybe special circumstances that you might find yourself in with relationship, transition, job transition, any transition inside of these crazy times, there can be one of two things You can go in a cave, you can hunker down, you can turn the coping mechanisms you can in the dark, allow the struggle to take control of your life, or you can talk about it either with a freshman, you can talk about it online, you can talk about it with your friends or small group, but talking about it for me has been part of the catharsis and processing how to make good out of heart, and so… One, encourage you, if you’re going through a hard time. If you leave it in the dark, I’m telling you, it will fester grow and become debilitating in a way that has…
14:13 S2: At least for me, it doesn’t make it easy necessarily, but it makes it easier because of the willingness that I’ve had to talk openly about the feelings, it’s created an empathy bridge for many, many other people that are also experiencing in real time struggle paying trauma, grief that allows my humanity to make them maybe feel the more human than them, feel more normal, and in any of the resources that I’ve found that have helped me get a little bit better, get a little bit healthier, feel bit more connected to my enough-ness, my wholeness, my worthiness at the beginning of a day, whether I’ve produced or not, whether I’m married or not, whether I have a job at a certain company or not, has affirmed maybe for them that there is also truth in that experience for them and their struggle and their humanity in processing it in whatever way they do.
15:07 S1: So good. And I just wanted to make a note because of the coping mechanisms conversation, and you actually unpack that a bit in your book, which is really powerful, if you guys haven’t read it, get out of your own way. You gotta go check it out. I listen to it on Audible, and so it was on a good car ride home that just poured into me, but the coping mechanisms is one thing that can be really scary and even more isolating than the actual problem that got you into the state of coping and that part, bringing that part into the light by allowing others not only to see that it’s an ailment and something that you need, your Moses moment where you have community coming in to help raise your arms because it’s hard to do, is knowing that in that sharing you now, create accountability. And so you’ve done that so much with this community and this season that you’re in, as you’re saying it’s hard, today is hard, and I can only imagine the amount of feedback on the thousands of comments that are coming through that make you say, Oh, okay, I can’t do this because there are other humans walking through something, maybe even harder, right.
16:10 S2: Yeah, for sure. There was a sermon I listened to from Steven verdict one point on a long run, and he was talking about this idea of secondary storms, and I think a lot of times when we’re introduced to trauma or grief or hard times headwinds, quarantine, whatever it might be, that sometimes we reach for something to cope, thinking that it’s going to help reduce the anxiety, reduce the fear, reduce the uneasiness, and what we’re doing by reaching for something is actually creating a secondary storm that a lot of times can become bigger than the storm that we were actually trying to mute in the first place, and so a big thing I would say is, if you can identify your triggers, if you can identify the things that end up making you feel and just fear an easy unrest, whatever it might be, and find ways to address the thing that you’re being triggered by a more productive way, you’re probably gonna actually get to the root of finding the reward you’re looking for, you want peace, you wanna have less anxiety, you wanna feel more certain, if you can reduce the thing that was triggering you in the first place in a healthier way, now you’ve avoided a secondary storm, you be able to head off that…
17:25 S2: The initial storm in a way that actually makes growing from it, learning from it, becoming stronger, better from it a possibility instead of it becoming something that will impair you and keep you inside the storm for a longer period of time. Yeah, that’s so true. So you asked the question, I’m gonna answer it. It was a while
17:42 S1: About the territory was A to say about his bank fees. Yeah.
17:47 S2: So what’s interesting for me is I was married for 16 years. I did not contemplate not being married one day in 16 years and we are not married, and having been married, my primary identity for many, many years outside of my relationship with God was being a husband, and so not having that as my primary identity, what my identity was, became somewhat of a crisis inside of my life, and in a world where so much of what I’d been doing for the last handful of years was about trying to build and drive around dreams that honestly, we’re more driven by my wife than myself. I was more the operator integrator to her being the visionary in what we were trying to build, the imagination that was required to actually cast what was next was a difficult thing, and so what I had to do first, and we’ll argue anyone who feels stuck in any way it has to do, first, I had to make a list of the things that I was afraid of in actually being able to paint as vivid a picture as possible for what next could look like. And so I made a list, 46 things on my list of what I was actually afraid of.
18:55 S2: What was it that was gonna get in my way, and in making the list, bringing those things to the light, I was able then to ask, Are these things real? Many of them were not actually real fears, they just were things that were sitting in my subconscious or in my consciousness that I thought I was afraid of, now that I had the moister, they were not things to actually be afraid of, and if they were things that I was legitimately okay in being afraid of what plan might I construct to reduce the kind of risk that could come in still with courage walking towards those fears, because I had to… No matter what. And so that was the first step. The second step was, Alright, now that I’ve addressed the fears, what do I want to actually have my life look like? What do I value? So I started with this list of what are the things that I value me, a list of core values that anything I do next has to fit inside of… I wanna work to live, not live to work, I wanna be an ally to all I wanna practice, I wanna practice servant leadership, I want to live with integrity, as in if I’m teaching something, it better be something that I am practicing.
20:07 S2: Personally, I want to do all of it through the lens of positivity, so I made a list of the things that I actually value in my life, and then I made a list of the things that I want to actually do, and I just ended up creating these four pillars, as it were, that were around the things that I identify most with, where I think the gifts that I have been afforded by God can be brought into this world in a way that affords light. And so I’m gonna focus on this now, primary identity that I have as a parent of four kids are the resources that I can create for kids or parents of children to help them understand truth before the world teaches them lives. Is there something inside of personal development where I… Yep. Have previously written about skepticism in growth and how my fixed mindset held me back and how my motivation style was something that was compromising my ability to keep going on days when I didn’t feel like it. Are there ways that through personal development, I can teach to anyone who may be wired like me with mindset blocks, with any issues they may have had with any coping mechanisms, with any kind of motivation, challenges, a question around How…
21:23 S2: With my experience professionally, I might be able to afford people insights in either navigating career inside of a corporate environment or entrepreneurship inside of a startup environment, and then this fitness piece, and so now my pursuit of health against physical, emotional, mental, spiritual and relational health has been transformational in the way that I feel about myself when I’m by myself, and what kind of tools that I might create against those things, and the last… The third thing, there’s a longer list, but the third big thing then was, alright, so what can I make… What could I make that would actually stay consistent with my values and live inside of the pillars of what I believe to be the ways to use the gifts that I have been afforded that would bring two people opportunity to make their life better? Because I am interested primarily in impact light and using the potential that has been placed inside of me by God to give people a belief in their own potential to unlock their own gifts. And so I started making a list, Okay, can I write a kids book? Can I create something inside of health that would afford someone a belief that they can themselves become healthy? Could I do something inside of the personal development of business side of things to change the way that people think that they can themselves grow…
22:42 S2: Can themselves pursue a career that would unleash all of their potential is…
22:46 S1: Yeah, it’s so good. And I think I heard, I don’t know where on all the things… The time with NAA might be coming, a daddy’s book. Right, a bottleneck. I’m so excited for that.
22:57 S2: I am so excited for that too. Yeah, we started doing tea time truly, my intention with tea time was, Can I implant truth in this small human that might have her believing it in a way that makes her not willing to accept the lies that society… The lies that her friends, the lies that the historical gender norms, the lies that any of these things would have her question, her work, her value… Her capacity for growth, any of those things. And in part it was, Hey, if I can make it cute, is that the possibility of the parent we’ve watched is it also may be re-frames what they also held about any of these things, but I shopped it there as a publisher, was actually gonna make it a children’s picture book. So bedtime, at some point in the not too distant future will include being able to read stories about believing in yourself or having perseverance or the beauty that comes and change, or a whole host of things, hopefully it becomes a huge series, I’d like it to be his biggest dog, man, my team, my dreams are not too
24:01 S1: Big, and they’re never are, and that’s the beautiful thing about this idea of the paper, and I was kind of pressing into that after you set it at the influencer Summit last week, and thinking… All of us have this opportunity at in any given moment of our life, there doesn’t have to be something negative, a valley situation happening for us to reflect and review and project what is next. God’s constantly implanting new vision, he’s constantly implanting new dreams, if we’re willing to go there, and of all of the things that you’ve said this entire time, it’s taken you being ultimately present, really present in the hard emotions in the field, good emotions in the exhilaration and in the pain for you to be able to even process this and ultimately similar to my own story line, it was this white flag experience, it was this moment of letting go of everything and saying, God, I am so out of control, I cannot use these coping mechanisms, I cannot use these titles, I cannot use this understanding of self that the world has blanketed on me that I took ownership under giving myself the credit in the action, ’cause we choose, right.
25:16 S1: But also giving the mindsets that have been implanted in areas that we don’t even know, I’m a millennial, so MTV did it, my morning cartoons did it, and you are now witnessing this as you raise these children and seeing all of the things that they’re continually exposed to, that you just wanna close their ears and close their eyes and be like, Hold on weight, I have something to say about this, because God has something to say about this. And I wanna impart that into you now so that you don’t have to spin the tens of 20 F, 30s of thousands of dollars in therapy that I had to… Right.
25:51 S2: 100%. I’m buying a human being… A boat. Yeah, his name is David. He’s amazing, I love the therapy that I’m doing, it’s all about self and reminding myself of who I am in a season where I’ve struggled a little bit with who I am, and if I think I could have gone back in time and had different kind of tools different kind of resources that would have reminded me in a different kind of way of who I am, your respective of the conditions I find myself in who I am without titles or without being married or not even without kids or not. I wouldn’t necessarily have the need that I have in real time to process it as much as I do, but it’s been such a gift. I hope that every one of us can think a little bit about the responsibility we have in trying to impart these truths to our kids in a way that will prepare them and hopefully inoculate them in some ways to the way that the world would otherwise try to convince them of their lack of their not having enough, not being enough, not being worthy, because that’s the job of the world, but our job as parents, our job as people of God, is to remind our people and ourselves of our enough-ness or worthiness that we are before we even get out of bed in the morning, already good and already prepared for whatever ends up coming our way.
27:18 S1: And it’s interesting too, because we’re both under this coaching umbrella and people are like, Oh, you’re a life coach. What does that mean? I’m a business coach, you’ve also teaching the business coaching space, and so knowing, being footed in this knowing and all of the stuff that we’ve poured into our personal and professional lives, being able to impart that to people, these foundational premises that you teach Noah and these simple little sweet silly times are actually the exact same conversations that I’m having with grown women who are five decades into a life that they designed that they don’t even love. And so the listeners now are not now as age, hopefully that you’re not on Facebook, and they’ll have a Facebook account, something else we can impart, but all the people listening like they’re in the stage where they need to know and feel that same sense of worthiness that same sense of capability. And so in your coaching, are you gonna keep doing that first off, you need to… And secondly, how do you impart to them at that point that they as a grown person are also worthy, called and purpose?
28:25 S2: Well, a lot of it starts. The courses that I’ve done have been anchored around a chronological progression through something you can build on top of, and the beginnings of the conversation tend to be around identity in fear, because our identity tends to be formed by a collection of experiences that we have given way to or have allowed others to give weight to on our behalf, and so the frame of the cage inside of which we live tends to be anchored around the way that we have processed or are still holding the weight for experiences from our past. And so I start, I tend to start with, How can you see the things that you’ve gone through as having perfectly prepared you for what comes next, are there ways for you to associate gratitude even for some of the things that you would not have necessarily asked for, I will tell you in five months into this journey, it’s a thing that I would have never asked for, and I have very much in the processing of this experience come to appreciate the gratitude that I can associate with something… I did not see coming, I did not hope for wish for think was a possibility in my life, and it has a way of reframing this experience, gives permission for me now to fully become a person that I will become in part because of this experience.
29:52 S2: Now, it’s gonna be a journey that takes a lot longer than five months to fully fully become whole and confident in what I am telling myself every single day, but the fact that I know the work that I have to do to get there, maybe give someone else permission to also do that work. You may have come out of the circumstance, you are not that circumstance, the fear ends up being a second thing because there’s so much of what we’ve been taught that triggers us feeling a certain way about us walking towards something that is uncomfortable, but I recently was… I had an interview with a shady and we were talking about her, and he mentioned this idea that fear is a catalyst trying to push you out of suffering that you’ve become comfortable with, which is… If you think about that for a second, we as humans tend to gravitate to things that we are comfortable with or have become familiar with it, the idea of departing from it is scary, and in that fear, we choose to stay in suffering that will kill us us push ourselves into something new, and fear as a catalyst to try and encourage you to walk towards something that is unknown for the possibility of less suffering is a thing that I am just anchored to right now like…
31:12 S2: Oh, okay. And in both of those things, in conjunction with some of the work I’m doing around self, I’ve really been spending time with trying to understand what the emotions that I’m experiencing or trying to tell me what the thoughts, the soundtrack in my head is trying to tell me I am not the voice in my head, I am the observer of those thoughts, I am not the feelings that I am having, I am the observer of those feelings and now inviting those feelings to come and sit with me and ask them, which is… It sounds crazy, but I’m telling you, when I become a eight, when I become anxious and I see that anxiety come sit down next to me and I’m able to have a conversation with it, asking it, what anxiety is your purpose here? Why have you decided to sit down here, and a lot of times it will reveal, Oh, Dave, you have not yet constructed enough detail and a plan for a part of your life, so I have presented you with this opportunity, this is Intel that I am providing you you now know that you have to do something to alleviate the anxiety, I’m not anxious, I’m a witness to my anxiety that is here now as a gift and like reframing the fox that I have or the feelings that I have as Intel or insight that might actually afford me now an opportunity to take action on it in like the…
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33:59 S1: You’re a Christian business coach. If you are ready to truly invest in yourself in your god dream and the people that God is calling you to, this is the only place to start that gives you a full lens development strategy that you can lean into as a trusted knowing source on a firm foundation. Now, I am Uber passionate to see you flourish and illuminated within your purpose, you can enroll now by heading over to the 1001 coaching tab at Tamra Andres dot com, remember I’m at the simple version of Tamara, T-A-M-A-R-A. I don’t know if you know that story, but it’s from the price is right about a week before I was born, so… Thanks, mom. Anyway, who booked your call and simply email me, coaching at tamaraws dot com, either way, I cannot wait to see you activated, and this is going to be an incredible opportunity and a beautiful season to see you… Design the god dream that God has planted in you since your mother’s who, it’s gonna be five y’all, I can’t wait to it. Let’s get started. Now, it’s so good and it’s so necessary, and to kinda bring us back on track with that, it’s the realizing that when Jesus himself asked him to step out of the boat, he didn’t say that the waters were calm, he didn’t promise that they were gonna stay calm he was in the midst of a storm that he said, step out, and so it’s the understanding that there is no promise that calm and peace exists, but what story are you telling yourself? Are you rename at Brown Fan hayat story? What story are those fears and planting in you with one line, somebody will say one thing, and the whole Facebook world blows up into conversation that…
35:49 S1: It’s the end of the universe, right? And so it’s realizing that we have control over that space, if we’re willing to sit in that space of what Intel is this… I love it from that perspective. What Intel is this giving me about the next step or the next season, so I I…
36:05 S2: I just have this crazy experience, I’ve been really intentional in trying to create opportunities for peace, community with God, like introspection at the end of a long run, I’m sitting on a rock and nature at night, I’m sitting in my back patio. One of the things that has been complicit in this beyond prayer has been music, and there’s this artist named Ben Rector, who I just have I interviewed immediately before I came on here, or I’m having a fan boy, kind of A… Is the first thing I did in talking to him was Tell him how meaningful his music has been as an accomplice in helping process the experience of this experience, and one of the songs that he has that just every single time has made me cry, cry, big Dave tears is a song called sailboat and the strong as he’s not a Christian artist, I call him Christian adjacent, but there’s an influence of faith in his music, and in this song, he talks about the idea of feeling like a sail boat, he doesn’t know where he’s headed, he recognizes that you cannot make the wind blow when you find yourself out on these waters, and that you can feel somewhat lost at sea, you can feel alone, the waters can be choppy, but if the turn in the song, there’s a line where he says, I’m not giving up, I’m gonna move forward, I’m gonna raise my sale, God knows what I’m headed towards, and there’s this duality that exists in struggle, in pain and grief, that is acknowledging that you can at times feel like a sail boat waiting for the wind to blow, but can at the same time where you can…
37:52 S2: Yep, recognize squarely where your feet are planted and man, feel sad for our process, grief against the reality of the reality you find yourself in that there is also the promise of wind that you will get to the other side of the water, that you will find the shore. And that there wasn’t ever a promise necessarily that you get there fast or on your time, or in a way that made you feel comfortable, but then you get there, and I just… I stay connected to it because you have to… Because you have to take… And I can do it. Yeah, so the line ends up being that like, Yes, you’re a sail boat and you can hold the fact that you’re a sail boat, but the turn of the song is, I’m not giving up, I’m gonna move forward, I’m gonna raise my sale… God knows what I’m headed towards. And so there’s this idea that you can at the same time hold the reality of the reality you find yourself in, that you can see where your feet are planted, you can feel sadness and mourn the loss of what you knew, you can feel the headwinds and even be angry at the circumstance that you find yourself inside of, but can simultaneously connect to a promise that the wind will come, that the shore will be something that you arrive at, but that there wasn’t ever a promise necessarily that it wouldn’t come with some choppy water that it wouldn’t come in timing that made sense to you, that it wasn’t gonna be necessarily easy, and part of our conversation, just the one that happened just before this, he was like, Look, there’s a lot of music inside the Christian space that’s all about like…
39:35 S2: It’s gonna be great. It’s awesome, it’s awesome. And I wanted to write something that was like, it will be awesome, but it also can be really hard into… I can tell you, I don’t love having to go through hard things, but I have also been the beneficiary of some of the most important growth of my entire life because of the experience of hard things, and so if you as a listener, are going through something hard, I’m sorry, and I’m hopeful that there will be something amazing that ends up becoming a part of your forever story because of the way that your perseverance… Because of the way that the pressure here created something amazing, because of the way that the sword was sharpened, the fire created something that you now will be… Because of having been through it.
40:27 S1: Yes, it’s so true. And I think that iron carpeting, iron experience that too isn’t even fun, even within marriage or any relationships, and it’s the knowing that it’s gonna come into that precious stone, that diamond that took out of the rough and into this place of beauty, one of the gals beauty from ashes, she’s speaking into every part of my business and realizing the necessity of a firm foundation in that, because surely there will be storms and surely there will be moments when I am exhausted and unable to keep pressing in and her just centering us back into that space as a company. And so it’s really necessary, I think as much as you’re doing self-work, is having the people that circle, that inner circle around you that helps you in those times, so can you speak into how… During the season, of course, your kiddos have been alongside you and you have confidence that are there too, and then you have these five rector experiences, which is also great. I can’t wait to listen to this song again. Now though it’s in my head is realizing that there is a necessity for intimacy during times of struggle so that you can, when you propel forward into these next places, be footed and grounded in a new fresh way that you haven’t been established in before.
41:44 S2: Yeah, well, first, having access to people who have gone through an experience that you’ve been through has been so helpful, because when you’re going through something that you haven’t ever experienced or going through pain that you just haven’t, you don’t have any history with having someone normalized the experience that you’re going through makes you feel less crazy, if you’ve been to a divorce, it’s a roller coaster, and having someone tell me, Oh yeah, guess what, that’s Tuesday, that’s not… It’s not a… That’s the way that it goes on a Tuesday has been so helpful and just having those resources, having those people that can talk through whatever is going on on that day has been an unbelievable gift I had… In the pastor of the church that I attend, something that was just surprisingly meaningful in that every day for about two months, he sent me the same text, and it was a simple ask what small piece of sadness can I hold for you today? Right, so it was his attempt to see me, his attempt to connect with me in a way that made me feel connected and an empathetic Overture and offer to carry some of the burden, I wasn’t looking to make it go away.
43:10 S2: He was asking, is there one small thing you wanna share with me today that in sharing it maybe lightens your load just a little bit. So that was amazing. And then I would say to the generosity of people that I don’t know, one of the weird benefits of having a life that I do where there’s a little more of a public-ness to it, is that I am immersed inside of community at all times, and the way that community has been supportive. On the days when I don’t feel awesome has been such a gift, but there has even been some people that again, I don’t know, there’s a person named Jared who in my direct messages… In November of last year, so we had a conversation. A friend had a conversation about divorce at the end of May, so six months prior to the divorce, this person named jara just started every single day sending me a prayer. Hey, God put this on my heart. I was thinking about you, I want you to have this word today, and at the beginning I was like, Oh man, that’s nice, Jared, are you okay? Is everything a brotherhood? They’re
44:28 S1: Praying for me.
44:29 S2: I didn’t understand it, it felt overly generous, and I didn’t at the time appreciate that for six months, there was some seating that was being done to prepare me for a hard season with someone who was being afforded some visibility spiritually to award that I might need… Well, now I step into a hard season, and there’s Jared consistently every day still. I’ve never met Jared, I don’t know where Jared… I don’t know who Jared is sending this prayer every single day. It just became this thing that I would look forward to. So this strange mosaic, people who were friends, people who have been through the experience of this thing that I am processing the generosity of someone like my pastor asking that simple question and then the blessing of community and people… Without getting anything in return. Selflessly, acting in a way that was about pouring into me, it’s just been this beautiful thing that has been the difference between it being harder, it doesn’t make it easy, but it definitely makes it easier, and so I just feel so grateful for it.
45:43 S1: Yeah, it’s really amazing. And I think, honestly, the more that you lean into that testimony, sharing and even the places from way back in the day. You shared something about Destiny’s Child the other day, and I was like, What? That’s crazy. Me and my husband broke in to singing, Don’t go chasing waterfalls until two seconds, I don’t… We realize that’s not desolate left eye, that was my main name initial, so I should know this, but realizing that every single component of our life that season, those passions, that gifting, it has a play right now, and those seeds that you dropped along the way of joy of energy, of passion, of love, even maybe those seeds that weren’t so healthy and ended up growing something different, you now have the responsibility and the gift to carry that into this next season where you love your white flag and you said, God, let me give you this white paper, and let you establish what’s next for me in a way that we can dream together based on what I’ve seen in the secular world, but what I know in the spiritual realm is something that is so deep within me and having and leaning on the community like myself, like these other people, to get you there because we are a part of that process, right.
47:02 S1: But also pray for you, even in the times that you don’t know that we’re praying for you, and just being in support, so it’s crazy and it hard ’cause I can’t imagine being in the public… I like you are, but also knowing that there are people who do care and there are communities that are there to support you and buy your books and come to the conferences and do the thing. So thank you for sharing, thank you for being vulnerable. Thank you for being transparent and we are rooting for… For you.
47:30 S2: You’re so sweet. And the thing is, I feel the prayers, I feel the support. It is palpable. It’s not a thing that is like, Oh, I wonder if it’s an… Absolutely, I can feel it. It’s amazing, and it’s so… So a thing that I have gratitude for. So thank
47:44 S1: You, I love that. You’re so welcome. We are so grateful for your time today, I wanna honor it. And if you don’t mind, I’d love to pray for the community before we close out, let’s do it. I got, I just thank you so much. I thank you that the people listening are going to hear your heart, that they’re going to be steward-ed into a place of safety within their own sale boat, but they’re also gonna have the encouragement to take a step out of the boat and know that they are secured even in that space, even a Mr. Storm, that you lighten the load, that you give us a new opportunity every single day to become the better version of ourselves, the one that you intended from our mother’s womb, so God, I just pray, ultimate blessings over Dave and his family and his ministry and his business and his dreams, God that you would just take them into your hand as he submits them to you and cultivate them into something that is exceedingly and abundantly greater than his wives imagination, God that you are good all the time and you put us into connection and community, together, so we don’t feel isolated, so we don’t feel alone, so that we can carry the burden together, got until we meet you face-to-face, we thank you for the beautiful gift and beautiful blessing of seeing you and other people.
49:03 S1: So God, well, he’s in a hard season, Lord, may he know that there are fruits that are going to be so sweet as he continues to walk this thing out alongside you and giving you the glory in the process. Thank you for the sweet time in your name. Amen.
49:19 S2: Amen. I already know the truth of that fruit, come on
49:23 S1: To your… Anyone that’s awesome, y’all do did yoga yesterday on the app for fitness for the first time, and we were talking about before we got on the call. And I hope your sore from yoga, and I hope to see more of the worship songs that you listen to and just keep infusing your positivity and your generosity, I appreciate you more than… You know.
49:48 S2: Right on. Thank you, Tamara, for having me. I appreciate it so much. Appreciate the community of support and all of the prayers, so keep him up. Thank you all.
49:56 S1: Blessings, thank you guys. Hey, it’s me again. I hope in today’s episode, you sense and ignite to an ever within you something mentally, physically, emotionally or spiritually moving that creates and sustains a fire within your journey before you go. Let’s Litt by the flank, I’d love for you to take a step right now and declare your take away by snapping a pick of the episode you tuned in to share your spark moment and tag me at it based podcast for me personally at Taman. Dress on and stuff. I hope that I can keep you accountable and also share you with the greater community of the Fitbit podcast listeners, we’re totally in this together, community over competition is the motto, right? I’d also be incredibly grateful if you took an extra second to leave a review on iTunes or your podcast listening app, I’d love to feature your thought in the next episode and give you and your passion project a big shout out. You know, I’m a writer, so I love of words and I can’t wait to read what you have to say, I’m ready to fuel the plane with you together and until next time, blessings over your joy to… 51:06 S1: Well, and wholeness, tune time.