Smart Hustle in Entrepreneurship with Ramon Ray
This human being who I got connected with on Breakfast with Champions makes me smile on the regular with his heart. I want to introduce you to the one and only celebrity CEO, Ramon Ray, with smarthustle.com and the Smart Hustle podcast.
He's a smart hustler, and if you don't know what that means, and you also know my aversion to that word he actually flips the script on me and I kinda like it.
We discuss being a PK kid, being an entrepreneur, being a risk-taker, being a faith-driven mission-servant leader and armor bearer. Gosh, the conversation is so good and I know it's going to bless you. So if it does, will you tag Ramon and his Smart Hustle, and perhaps even do the most amazing extra thing for me, Tamra Andrews, with a big, big podcast review.
I am on a mission to get 200 reviews on Apple, Spotify, or on any of the listening platforms. And it would be a great way to share your gratitude and give me a little Christmas present in the process.
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Ramon is an in-demand small business growth expert. He's started four companies and sold two of them and is an author of four books. His latest book is, "Celebrity CEO". Ramon was fired from the United Nations, graduated from the FBI Citizens Academy and plays piano.
Where to Find Ramon:
Show Notes: Smart Hustle in Entrepreneurship
Have you heard that before recently? Perhaps on clubhouse, maybe breakfast champions. I don't know, but this human being who I got connected with there makes me smile with that sound on the regular, but more so importantly with his heart. This is the one and only celebrity CEO, Ramon Ray, with the smart hustle.com smart hustle podcast.
He's a smart hustler. And if you don't know what that means, and you also know my affinity, not my affinity, my aversion to that word. Yes. Hustler, not my thing. He actually flips the script on me and I kinda like it. He becomes the podcast host of this show and he puts me in position with this word and I am so grateful.
We also talk about being a PK kid, being an entrepreneur, being a risk taker. Being a faith driven mission, servant leader and armor bear. Gosh, the conversation is so good and I know it's going to bless you. So if it does, will you share what do you tag Ramon and I's smart hustle and I will you tag us and perhaps even do the extra leg, the extra opportunity, the extra gifts to me, your host Tamra Andrews with a big, big podcast, but leaving an actual review.
I am on a review mission to get 200 reviews on. Apple on Spotify on any of the listening platforms. And it would be a great way to share your gratitude and give me a little Christmas present in the process and Ramon too. He's going to share you back. He's incredible. Celebrity CEO. Let go.
Welcome to the fit and faith podcast. It is an acronym representing founders, innovators, and trailblazers who are looking to live a life wholly, fully, authentically, and truly fit a space for us to connect on the raw real stories of mind, body, and soul alignment of entrepreneurs in kingdom leader. I'm your host, Tamra and dress.
And this podcast, isn't like the cookie cutter interview experience. I've been coined the entrepreneurial rabbi. And so we do go there unscripted, no matter how far wide, deep or high there is. My desire is to see people rise from the inside, out, into their greatest calling, by sharing their truest stories.
And tips as a purpose activator and brand builder. I believe our successes and failures are derived from who and whose we are not what we do, but strategy and vision are equally as important to the mission. So let's cut to the chase together and get fit in faith.
so fun. You guys are hanging out with none other than the famous celebrity CEO himself, Ramon Ray. And if you have yet to meet him first off, you need to go to a social media. So you can contain some of his energy in a bottle. It's going to sell for millions here as an NFTE, somehow some way. I'll take that.
I'll take that. Thank you for being here. Pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me, Tim. It's good to hang with. You get to know you better to serve your audience. And I follow a list of amazing people. Who've been here with you. So thank you for having me. Thank you. Absolutely. And it's really great.
Previously on Ramone's podcast, the smart hustle podcast. He's also an author of several books, but I said the celebrity CEO, because that is one of his most recent, and I have the pleasure of having a signed copy myself. And his story is incredible. It's something that I aspire to on many levels. And I'm also gleaning and learning from on the regular.
And most recently he took on a new title as a deer armor, bear to ma at the grow your business for God's sake conference that just took place in Kentucky, uh, in November. And so I'm grateful to him in many layers and levels and excited to learn from you still to. Oh, I'm excited to share. And I think it's amazing that new title was new for me.
I called it something else. I'm not gonna even say what I called it. I like armored bear much better. And I think tomorrow, um, you are probably God brought the armor, bear out and something I've always wanted to do, but you know, like, uh, be a hotel, um, uh, bellman or the person who greets you at the door with your luggage or something, and always want to do something like that.
So this is where I had a 72 hours or 48 hours of doing it. It was awesome.
Servant heart. And it was just like, Hey, if you need help with your social media, I know you're going to be really busy behind the curtain. I'll just take pictures. I'll go live from your phone. And that is like an influencer's dream. He clearly knows what we need and what we want. And that's not only because that's a role you play, but it's also a role that you've watched transpire and the need of an entrepreneur.
And so I want to hear about like, where did smart hustle evolve? Cause I know you've had several businesses. It's Olsen. Let's talk about your backstory to how you are, who you are and how you've gotten. And I will, let me add one more thing about the influencer and, you know, having the camera person, whatever.
I know how it is frustrating because I let my wife let my son love my daughter, but they're not us. Right. And so some days, like when they're traveled with me or my son will be at an event, which he doesn't really care about, or my daughter like, okay, dad, I'll go to the networking event. You know, I'm in making her.
And also, can you take my. Oh, great. I have a second person. Not because I'm anything, but this is the world I'm in. I am the asset as it were. And. You didn't see me talking to over just the hell. Did you get the picture or charity? You didn't see Barack Obama gave me a high-five charity. You didn't see who Ivanka Trump, whoever you want.
You know, she's like, oh, I'm like, you didn't see me jumping up in my orange sock showing through my suit pants. They had no, I was eating chips. So anyways, it's such a phenomenal job. And I, what I think is so powerful about it is in addition to being the armor-bearer and you guys have to look up fully what this means.
Um, I know. From a pastoral perspective of somebody coming in and like helping stewards so that the person can do the pastors specifically can do what they're called and made to do without having to worry about all of the other unraveling pieces, because often that's what's happening, but I've also bearing witness to armor-bearer as who have done things as small and granular, but also seem pretty bougie from the outside, looking in like opening the water bottle and handing it to the person while they're mid-conversation.
So that they didn't have to distract themselves to do something that sounds like not a big deal. Right. But reload is, he was so fine tuned to every little detail, but you were also such an advocate for me that weekend to the point where you're like, you need to get in on this picture, you need to get in on this conversation.
And even though I'm like all for the lines, There was just moments where I felt like I'm not invited into that space. And he's like, hold on, you're right there with them. Go up there and let me advocate for you, which made me feel so honored and comfortable. And so I, it was just such a special, one more thing, Tim.
Right. So I saw TD Jakes. It was cool. This is how much I love this rope. He was onstage Tamra. This was so smooth and beautiful that you can tell. Now people around me didn't know why I'm geeking out on this, but I like pause and rewind. What happened? His shoe was untied life. He's a big dog. Tamra. See, I can, I, can we do a whole show on the shooter?
So he was stage left. So his, his team was on stage left his armor bear. You know, there's several people, so much security, but there's the armor bear, which is not security, two different roles. So TD Jake just walked. He's preaching. He put his leg up on like a little, not made for that, but like a speaker or something was preaching and preaching.
The armor-bearer clearly he had to be in the public light, but how he moved, you feel what? I mean, it wasn't like just jumping along. It was a smooth move. Let me put my hands up, tied the shoe to the point. Number three, hallelujah. And he got, and he kept moving. I don't need any, yeah, let me, we can move on that's ever, but that, and you did that.
Like, you didn't actually physically have a red carpet with you, but I am telling you everywhere that you went to the, I went right. The needs you right behind you or right in front of you. I felt like there was a red carpet everywhere. An unexpected present that I will always reopen desk when we have a conversation.
So I value you and grateful for it. But you asked me Tamra. Yes. About smart hustle. We'll we'll we can go on and on, on this moments, but don't. Yeah. So I've started four companies for small companies. And I say that tomorrow, because I think, you know, uh, wall street and fortune and Forbes magazine, et cetera.
Understandably. We're all interested in Tesla and billion dollar brands I get. And of course I am. Do you know, but there's many of us, small cups, small businesses. So I've started for small companies. Uh, one wasn't event business. Uh, one was a blog called small biz technology.com. Uh, and 2019, I started April, 1999.
So that would have been 20 years to the date. Now, there was an event in business where we brought together hundreds of people at an event on another event business brought it. Then the first one was a, a going out of order here with a technology consulting business. And that I dissolved, I had asked him to count, what do you call it when you stopped doing something?
He's like Ramon, we call it dissolving. I'm like, okay, this is all dead. That was many years ago. That was much fancier than I will. I love it. We dissolved that. I would call it, evolved that company because I think everything you've ever done is a lead up to the next thing. Whether or not you call it the same thing or not, God's using it all.
You're right. You're right. And Ramon evolved. How about that? The business, the state laws was Kaputo Ramon evolve, but that's a little bit of my business sense. I'm happy to talk about the thing. That's a business sense of me. And so smart also today, Tamra who Ramon is today. It's a media company and we, uh, provide lots of content to small business owners.
Um, and we monetize that again. It's easy to tell you, how do you make your money? You know, when you don't, it it's confusing, but we work with very, very large technology brands like. Salesforce SAP, you name it. Any technology brand, they save Tamra, a small bit of their budget for influencer market. Nope. I don't get the super bowl ad commercial.
I'm not a big business. I don't get what ink gets. Right. Inc magazine or whatever, a hundred thousand dollars a page and big deals. That's great. But they save 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, $50,000 for a campaign for influencers. That's the space I fit in. So when Microsoft or Dell or Zoho or PayPal, whoever it is, I'm launching a product.
They may say, Hey, Ramon, we have some cash for them, but small for me, it's like, yeah, we have some money. Can you produce. That's the non-scalable part, that's me or contents. So I have a good team, a team of about five, you know, contractors team of five. And, um, we can do 10 articles, five articles, things like that.
So I'll stop there, but is that helpful? Kind of know what Ramon does producing content and working with brands then to sponsor it, monetize it inside. Yeah, I think it's brilliant. And I, and I think people don't think about business development or the amount of things that the person has done as an entrepreneur to get them where they are.
It was so fun to hear like that evolution. I had counted at one point actually, before the grow for God conference, I sat down and I'm like, how many businesses have I actually started? And my mom and I were like dying, laughing at all of the things. Like, not just like, Hey, we're going to start this MLM business.
That was also, we did four different MLMs over the course of 10 years, but actual businesses generated revenue had an LLC. There was over 1111. And that sounds crazy. But when someone says they're a serial entrepreneur, and I say that about myself, and it sounds like that's who you are too. You're always thinking creatively outside of the box.
This is there's filling a gap. And then there's serving that gap. And I feel like the way that you show up, especially in my experience with you on clubhouse and the way you educate, um, has been one of my favorite. And I think. I think different differentiating factors than a traditional, uh, influencer or even a media.
Sure. No, I appreciate that. I appreciate it. By the way, Tamra, I'm going to tell you a secret, please. Don't don't tell anybody. Um, but I started a fifth business, uh, last writing. I tell you, I'll tell you about the details of it later, but your name is on the private, not public. I would never do that publicly, but everybody who's listening, tan was name was on the private documents.
I just haven't asked her yet because she's been a little busy with some things, but her name was on the document, not the legal document, that advisory documents I'm in it, I'm in it. And that's a whole nother component when I, and you have been advising me as well. And so I'm so grateful for. Is the advisor role.
I don't even take mention to the amount of businesses that I've been an advisor to. I sit on board score. I helped steward. Right? Like I think that's such a fun role. I haven't really figured out how to monetize those other than shares. Shares are great, but they haven't monetized. So to me, it's just like extra time and energy.
When you think back remote, like back to little Ramon, little, we were talking to those dimples. If you're not watching live, he looks so young with his dimples and my daughter is going to be ageless like Ramon because of hers. When we think back of little Ramon, was this like a seed that was example, was it a seed that was sewn from someone that was a mentor to you or a family member?
I don't think so. Timber I'll share a bit, then you can help me unpack this. How about that? I don't know. So I was born into a family when I was born. Both of my parents were Christians and my parents are ministers. My father died 20 something years ago, but he was a pastor. My mother was a minister to this day in a New York area church.
And the church I go to a large church. I'm at, in that branch, but in the collective church. So born the PK preacher's kid. Um, and my father though, prior to him being an administer was an electrician. Uh, then my mother was a stay-at-home mom. You know, she did some modeling earlier before I was born. So the long answer is I don't think so.
I think that hardworking people, another trajectory as I kind of bounced around here was me working at the United nations. Uh full-time we got fired from there. So I think the, I don't know where the entrepreneurial came. My Tamra it. Maybe just God put it in there. And maybe I think entrepreneurial-ism takes a few things.
You don't have to have all three, right? But as you know, you are an entrepreneur. He have to have a bit of ability to have some version of risk. You and I were talking offline about how we're different, but some version of risk. Clearly you have some version of risk, I think, to, um, being able to willing to get quote unquote punch in the face.
I call it over and over again and told no, no, no, no, no. And that excites you in some weird ways. I think that's the second thing. Creativity, right? Marie Forleo talks about everything is figureoutable. So my point is obviously my genes, my DNA, what God's given me, um, are, are, are that way. And I think it lends itself to being a creator.
Is that, so I'm curious because I was just having this conversation at a coffee shop before again, do you think everyone has a component of entrepreneurship or entrepreneurial, uh, pieces to who they are? That sounds like a very political question him. Um, but I'm, I'm looking at it more through the creative lens.
I got it. No, but, uh, so yes I do. But in case you're asking is if people are people born as an entrepreneur and you didn't ask it that way, but in case that's a cousin to the question, I think. But I do think everybody has the capacity to be on my wife. She has a re a business runs, wreaths.com. Ooh. Okay.
She hasn't read the business, you know, it's a hobby and she'll say that openly, it's a hobby for her, but my point is she's on Etsy and these sites figure it out. Like we all do, you know, Ramon, can you come down, honey? Oh, I got it fixed or whatever, you know? Cause I'm the resident tech person. But my point is she doesn't like.
She doesn't have to do it. Thank, thank God for that. And just, just not at her drive, you know, I'm sure you counsel, I think you have mastermind and coaching pricing. I'm guessing is one big thing that you hope your clients with. She struggles with. Damn bro. So my point is if I'm answering it a long way, everybody has a piece of it, I think, to some degree, but I don't think everybody's cut out to be a Tamra Ramon.
No, I liked that perspective. I think that where I, when I was processing it myself, Similar is the, is the understanding. And I hadn't really considered the risk piece, but I think that's a massive part of the conversation because I think through the conversations I had with my financial advisor years and years ago, when everyone else had, you know, a substantial 401k established or they had their, uh, Created, they had all these other pieces to the puzzle.
And me and my husband who are both entrepreneurs sat there. Like we got no life savings. We got no 401k. We're just willing to put it all out there and see what happens. We're willing to risk it all in order to gain it all. I don't know what the variable is of that, but gain what we believe could be. More valuable than the 401k lifestyle.
Um, but it's a risk. So we were fast forward after that moment. About four years later, we sat down with the same advisor and we asked him, Hey, what is everybody else at right now? Are our peers. I was right under 30. I think it was 29 at the time. My husband was right in his young thirties and we wanted to know what is their 401k read?
What is it expected to be by the time that they're 40? And what is the game plan for us to be able to retire by a specific. And that is how we've then formulated everything we've done moving forward. We wanted to make sure that we had the safety net checked off in the standards of what is the margin for this, but then simultaneously we wanted to retire earlier, have more freedom to travel, have more freedom for our children.
We don't really necessarily believe that you have to go to college to do what we do. And so it was just a really cool reflective moment. And you have done the same thing. You've risked it all. When you think about what you gain in that risk, what are those things like for you? Yeah, I think that I'm still on the journey of talking about pure money and wealth, which I think is a good thing.
The greater wealth, of course, it's God's wealth for sure. But talking about, you know, we gotta pay our bill and mortgage and eat beans and rice is Dave Ramsey and last, but, um, uh, I get off track by the way, Tamra very easily to whistle and snap your fingers. Hey, Ramon, you're talking live with Tamra, so feel free to do that.
That'd be a load, but, um, yeah. So my point is only recently, have I done re you know, profit first and things like this, just books like that to help me be more financially fit. So what, I'm my point is the downside of being able to take risk. I've lost a lot of money tomorrow because I've made bets, but in the math though, by God's grace, I've been able to take care of my family and be successful to some degree.
That makes sense what I'm saying, but I need to do better that that's my week. I mean, he fall what? I mean, I'm a marketer for sure. Event. A lot of things I do well as, you know what I do. Right. But the part about finance and thank for my wife, you know, she's the one who helped throttle this back, you know, on that.
But, but I must say like metaphorically, if I had a a hundred thousand dollars, Oprah Oprah's rates are a lot bigger, but Tamra, here's the kind of person I am. Let me know what kind of person you are. If I had a hundred thousand dollars free-falling cash. And I had a thing to invite Oprah to speak at an event two years from now or something.
In a heartbeat. I would bet that okay. Over, can I use your name and face the next two years? Can I say Oprah's coming to, you know, the NJ pack? She said. Whenever you want, but you got to give me the, you know what I'm saying? So my point is I would use the money for that. Cause I would hold them to half a million.
That's just me. And I totally see that. And that's, I guess the ultimate the risk experience of it because other people would be like, why would you bet on that? Why would that really help? And I just think understanding one of the things that you've really understood is this idea of authority, social authority, and who you're partnering with, because I feel like a lot of what you do is based on positioning and partnership.
Um, did you ever have an experience when you were coming even maybe through the United nations, you experienced this where a partnership, what fell through and you learned a lot from that experience? Yeah. Thankfully Tamra, I've not, let's say fall through one indicators. I've never lost money on partnerships.
Um, now my wife reads people much better and they say, ladies do in general, you know, they're good, intuitive people. And all those things. I'm not a brain science person, but I'm sure you know what I mean, but no, it's never, I've had toxic relationships and that's one of the UN was very toxic, but it was corporate.
And as my understanding that happens a lot in corporate, but I think the freedom we have as entrepreneurs, let's say tamarind, Ramon, we decided we're going to work together on something. There's enough runway and time for Tamra to fill me out me to fill her out, you know, Ramon, you're a nice person to, and not person, but let's just, let's just keep it LinkedIn only, you know, so, you know, cause I haven't really been burned Tamra and I've done a lot of joint things together, shared money.
And I guess that also I'm, I'm a firm believer who's holding the bag and for example, I know. My, um, my, um, social media manager, I don't know why tear up. His name was Kosta team. He, uh, I hired him off of work, a contractor site. I said, dude, listen, I'm going to pay you a week upfront. What kind of, you know, I going back and forth about money.
I said, listen, to make it easy for you. I want to work with you. I'll make it easy. I'm sending you the money. You have nothing to lose. Now. I've already paid you for the, like the month's work. But that sealed his heart. So I dunno how I got on that, but my point about relationships, timber, I guess what I'm trying to say is where's the leverage.
I asked myself. So if I trust them and I'm losing theirs, that's their problem. Meaning it's good on their side. It's good. If I'm losing money, then I can mitigate myself. Maybe their steps, payments, installments, if you, what I'm trying to get at meaning. So for some reason, by God's grace, I've been pretty good at not getting burned with relationships because.
I strategize it quickly in my brain, if that makes sense. Yeah, no, I love that. And I love that you actually drew it in to like team experience. Cause it's similar to client experience. And we were having a conversation sitting on the couch with my mom the other day, who has really stepped into the role of like sales for our company one, cause I just don't have the capacity and two.
Suck at it. Let's just be honest. I can't, we can't be good at everything. Right. For them. We can't make it everything. I would literally give everything all the time. My sales calls are our coaching calls and people leave and they're like, oh, I don't need your services anymore because you just gave me the blueprint.
Right. I know. However, my team who would like to feed their family is not okay with it. They kindly moved me away. No, the acid to him, or they're saying to you or that, right. So we're sitting on a couch and we're having this conversation about sales and objections. And, um, my husband brought, brings up, uh, uh, what is it a real, it was a real, not a tic dock.
And it was a conversation with these two people. I didn't know who they were, but it had millions of followers. We know how everything can go viral now, but it was talking about a conversation that the guy was pitching, the other guy who was making the sale. And he said, it's a thousand dollars. And I was like, oh, I don't know if I'm willing to risk a thousand dollars.
Right. This is what we hear from clients. Oh, I don't have the money. I don't have the 20 K investment for that mastermind. And so they said, okay, well, what if I do it this way? What if I actually give you the entire experience for free? And I will take a cut on your sales? And we were sitting there, I'm like, oh, what a brilliant idea.
And the guy was like, okay, well, what cut are you going to take? He was like, well, I'll take 50 and you take 50. And the guy said, well, that's a lot of money. What if I end up making millions of dollars? And yeah. That's your risk. I'm risking everything on you to give you the forefront of the marketing development of the business design of the client acquisition opportunity.
But I want 50% in and my entrepreneurial brain. It was like a ping pong experience. I'm thinking, what are those pinball machines? Just like you and you doing in the morning. I was like, oh my gosh, can I just run my entire business? Like this? I'll just be a serial entrepreneur for all of the clients that I fully believe in.
I don't, they don't have to put anything up front. I'll bid on you with all of my gifts and talents. If you are willing to share your profit is no different than a shark tank experience. Right. And most people will say no. And he went back and was like, okay, I see your value. I'll give you the thousand dollars to get you.
But I'm so I'm surprised actually, if we don't mind on this a bit more timber, why did he say no? I'm surprised. I mean, I know it's an example, but going back with me and you, maybe it's different people, but I think that, I guess maybe because he believed in himself so much oh yes, he would do it. So he was like, no, I want to give timber a thousand because I want to keep all 10 million that must've been, he knew.
So that means he believes in himself. Okay, good. Cause I was going to say, yeah, I, yeah. Yeah, I processed the same exact thing. I was like, why wouldn't he do that? But it makes total sense. And like he knows the profitability. He knows what could be. And again, that goes back to entrepreneurship, we're willing to pay it out in order to see what can become.
Um, but I thought it was a really interesting perspective. And I feel like with your celebrity CEO status, and I've got to open this book, you guys, I don't know about you, but. Books on books, um, books from people that I can't wait to sit down and read, I just don't spend the time to do it. I constantly am reading audible specifically as my.
I want to know what's inside this book. You want to give my customers, my, my client, my community submitted. Yeah. Two key things. Uh, most people are many people, whatever word you wanna use are looking for the quick sale. Tamara, can you buy my pen please? Timber timber by my pen, it's on sale on sale. I get that sales, clothing, conversion, all these things.
E-commerce click and buy. There's a place for all that. Another version of how to make money. This celebrity CEO principle is two or three main things. One as for a smile. Before you ask for a sale guys, do this all the time. You know, we're trying to get a girl's. I put it to my wife hex. She said no, to me, that's exactly why we're married.
She shouldn't have said no, she have just said no. She said no. And I was like, I'm chasing, hunting you down 20, 28 years tomorrow. Anyways. Um, point is so ask for a smile before you ask for. What that means is build a community of fans that you're nurturing to buy from you timber to the swell with her podcast events, all the things she's doing.
This is the model. It's not a duh moment. Oh, well, we knew that, but it's drilling it into you. You need to make sales, but those of you want long-term sales. That's why the social media, the real, the Tik TOK, all these things in. It builds up trust my friend, John Jantsch, you may have interviewed him know like, and trust.
This is what he talks about in his book. Duct tape marketing, right? It's all about building. So that's the concept of how to be a celebrity CEO in your industry. It doesn't mean being Beyonce or Kardashian, whoever your famous person of the year is it's being well-known in your. Chambers well-known fit and faith podcast, right?
Top 2%, two and a half percent podcast in the world. Right? Same thing with, we all have communities. You may be right now, a mom in Austin, Texas selling crocheted, baby beanies. I don't know, get well-known in your church and be the celebrity CEO of your 521 person. Or you may be a dad who fixes trucks, you know, in Northern Ontario, somewhere where's Ontario, Canada.
Yeah. Northern Ontario, somewhere the well-known in that community. So I'm saying those things because they're not just dot coms and stuff, Tamra it's for everybody to be the celebrity seat. In the industry. Yeah. I think that's really brilliant. And it goes to show too, that everyone has the capability of doing it.
You know, when we're in a society that like people chase fame, they chase the numbers, they chase the morality and I'll be honest. I think it'd be awesome. If when a video goes viral, Tik TOK videos have had real, not tick-tock real videos go viral and you know, four hour timeframe. I'm like holy cows, 24, 20 5,000 people.
It's not even millions. Right. When people get that. So let that celebrity, do you think that it's possible for them to stay rooted rather than lose out on the original mission or vision of what they're creating? It's very tough. You look at some influencers that I don't know if you know them personally, but names we've heard of couples that have had some issues and things, you know, it's tough.
You know, I've mentioned my wife several times because I know, you know, you're a faith based person. So, you know, she keeps me grounded. So it is tough. Uh, Tamara, the fame, you and I are, are in front of camera. I'm just giving the reality. I don't know about you, but I know I have to check myself when I go to my hotel room, I pray, pray at a stage.
I pray because I want to be humble. We have to be showcased in the limelight. Hey, what's up? There's performance. I'm being real. This is the art of, of stage craft. I mean, if it's for God, then my minister I'm sidetrack. You're asking me, well, why do you always close your eyes when you testify in shirts? The reason I do it Tamra, cause that's a no performance zone.
And I know myself, I am a performer as it were, but I have to close my eyes in the pulpit because I'll be, I'll be reading people and doing what I do for a living. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, I don't want that to happen anyways. So, um, yeah. So I think that it's hard when you see that happening and see the fame and all those things, but it's doable.
I think if you humble brag, as it were, whatever word you want to use, I think if you, and especially timber, if your mission is to. Whatever Christ over business. That's your mission, your calling like you imagine your pastor Tamra my pastor saying no, no, I'm not gonna use the mic to preach today. Dude. We need to.
Yeah. So that's really powerful. And I guess for me, I'm always conscientious now because I wasn't always of that concept of like circle of influence and who is actually around you. Like your wife is clearly that person who's like pulling out the back tail of your talks. And I was like, sit down just for a minute, sit down.
And I have that with. So much so, but at the same exact time, if it's silent or something powerful needs to be said, he'll literally like push me from behind and lead me into the front of the crowd. And here's the mic because he knows our power. Right? He knows our ability. We were at a, uh, one of his best friends.
I'd never met anybody in the room other than the best friend, not even the significant other, the bride. And he hands me the mic when they ask the question, does anybody else want to. He's like Tamra. And I was like, I don't even think I know her name. Are you joking right now? People at 40? I didn't know. So of course I take the mic and I start sharing and everyone thought that was amazing.
That was beautiful. And he was like, told you you'd be fine. Oh, you're going down buddy, but the man refuses to take a mic. So I think it's important. We know what our gifts and talents are, but we, we create a circle of influence with people who will sustain us in that experience. And I think the sustainability is really the question less about the one time.
Experience, because anybody can go viral now, but more about the sustainability of what does that thing do to us mentally, physically, emotionally, relationally. Um, and, and I really passionate about helping people, especially entrepreneurs who have that ability to go. Not just viral, but go into the place of wealth that does look from a worldly lens, like just the money and the riches, right.
And us knowing truly the foundation of wealth, having the joy and the peace and the patience and all of the fruits of the spirit, um, resources are important. And I think money is a huge resource that we can use for the kingdom, but it's not everything
I see your sister. The dream is spinning in your soul, calling you forward. And yet the works are taking until
summoned into purpose to reap what he promised, what you desire is noble and honest.
Co-laborers needed to level up your fields. Plow, plant. Harvest to yield
your vision and growth well manifest layer, spirit to rest with all you invests
a fresh season upon you waiting to flourish, requiring your faith and works to nourish.
Are you ready to repeat your harvest?
Correct Cornell you're right. Tamra. And I think you're right. It, like you said, that money for the kingdom. And I'll just say one more example. My pastor asked him, uh, my pastor meeting several, you know, different areas, but, um, I said, what are you doing on stage? He said, uh, is pastor Cartland is his name? So he does.
He's not online at all fit Facebook, but I'm going to show him this. But pastor Carlin, he has a raspy voice. Find your man. That's a Carlin. He has a big beard, but he's in Ramon. When I'm up front, I will I'll stop them because I'll laugh. But he said, I pray always. Talking God keep me humble. And he said, one day, some pride came to his mind while he was on stage and for the thousands of people and he was begging God, please, God have mercy.
Don't let my mind go play. Cause he knows that got work. You'll be studying. X exit is where's exit is where you that'll make you look for. I will, is that even in the Bible, did I make that word up? Exactly. So he would say, Ramon, I just prayed. Or maybe he went blank for a minute. Something happened and he was saying, God, I'm sorry, I'm humble.
And then the annoying thing came back so well, that is kind of how I felt on Saturday during that conference. But it wasn't the pride thing. I just freaked out before I went on stage because everything I had created with. And God was like, that's not what you're going to teach about. And like, what am I gonna teach about?
And there was no response. Like literally he was silent and I just had to steward the timing, the creation. I had a bunch of people who were about to pass out forks. I had no idea how that was going to play it, that conversation. And I just, you know, you just let it go. And so I'm curious when you've been on this journey and even perhaps after your kids have been out of the nest and it's just you and your wife, 28 years of such a gift, such an amazing thing to learn from you about, um, is how have you been able to release what your expectation of your life has been, or perhaps what that entrepreneurial journey would look like and allow it to be led by the whole.
That's a great question. I think one thing I've done Tamra's that I've actively, I have a private WhatsApp group just for, you know, people in my church, my community. So I I've told them, I read it. I think I've may have edited this based on somebody from your team or you, but God is my, uh, business development head of my business development.
I've changed that to God as my CEO. Cause that was like somebody else. But my point is that's actively what I do tomorrow to my shame. The last several months, I've kind of not said it so much, but that's what I started to do is I've reaffirmed my faith only in the past five years. Preacher's kid. Right.
But only in past five to six years, I reaffirmed my faith on fire for God. But, um, is that God is that pausing. God, you guide me, God, you're the center. This is your business. Uh, so I've really purposely made it, God focused, again, many Christians around us. Some of us share it as part of their business.
That's not how I Telegraph it, but if you get one into deeper, you know who Ramones about? So that hopefully that I answered the question I hope. And I think a lot of people, especially. We are in the space where they don't know where to position their faith in what they do, even though it's naturally and organically a creation piece of who they are, because it's their gifts because of their talent, because it was an idea or a God deposit.
I like to call it like he deposited that dream. You didn't cultivate it out of thin air. How would you suggest people, uh, come to a place of peace over the fact that they're not necessarily a Christian based something, but they have the heartbeat of the Christian belief system and God as their CEO. And they can still go out in the quote unquote secular world.
That is a great question. A few things off the top of my mind, one surround yourself with like-minded people. You know, whether you're hanging out with the Tamra's of the world or Ramones, whoever take your pick in your community. That's one, two, definitely a tight knit group of fellow warriors. Every Tuesday.
There's five guys meet for about a half hour. We talk about our lives. We talk about our kids. We talk about all kinds of things. We cry together, pray together, but that's like my broke team, every Tuesday, it's in my calendar. So that's to surrounding yourself with people. And I think three is that understand that we all God has called us all.
So there's no shame in that. Just those who are thinking, man, I wish I could know if you are a child of God. If your leverage is crash. Check that first, that's it. And we're all called differently. I don't, I'm not going, I don't know that. I mean, I know the story well, but I'm not gonna take the time on back in here, but I'm guessing that Daniel had a different jam and vibe than Shadrack Michelle would have been to go.
Right? In fact, he did. They're not the ones who like prayed to the, the guy who was going to cut their heads off. Right. You have Joseph, he had a different vibe and way he acted than that. So you have these men and women in the Bible who are dedicated, committed Christians. Some of them were like, Stop. I'm going to make you go blind.
If you don't, whatever others were like more calm and, you know, so does it make sense? What I'm saying, Tim, as I'm saying it, I'm like, I'm confusing myself. No, I'm with complete sense. And I love that. There's like, right. There's freedom in that variation of expression. And we're obviously uniquely qualified in those different areas to do what he's called us to do.
I think the question that I often get is people not wanting to be misconstrued as not in their faith, because when they go to work, they're not wearing that hat. Yeah. We are always being watched. So to encourage people, you are always being watched. You won't believe. And I cry very easily. 10. I feel like when we cried again, you can't believe that people that come up to me after an event, you.
They're looking around like, like a secret I'm like, then I play with him and look around. So my point being is that some people right. Grow for God. Right? Carbon's got it's above. Here's what we're all about. But others, no shame. Your light's still consigned. And that's actually even harder, you know, you're walking along and some dude says, yo, check it.
We'll check this out, check that out. Or do you want to have this? Have that? Any the other feel what? I mean, you don't have a hotel alone, whatever people watching. People that the 10 people in the room, two of them knows what you, who you proclaimed to be in the Uber car and the others get a sense or something.
Cause you didn't laugh at this joke. You didn't look this way. You didn't do this. So my point being, being encouraged, your lights shining because if, especially if you're living for him, you can't hide it in so many people Tamra. They either of. He, he must be this religion or that religion, you know, Christian, like I've had to, like, what kind of Christian are you conversation?
Well, what does that mean to you? And honestly I've found that the more ingrained I've come into my understanding of the word, my relationship with Jesus versus the religion side of what. Expectation or doctrine might be, I actually am flagged by the type of Christians that do exist. And it's a hard conversation to have because you never want to call out your own brother or sister, but there's also like, I believe this importance.
As a connected community, both vertically and horizontally to level people, to a sense of responsibility and, um, heighten them to a sense of awareness of things like humility, things like pride, things like, um, conscious living, environmentally being sound like all of the pieces that I think are truly a part of the heart of the father, but maybe aren't represented in the church the way.
Most people hope that they would be. And it's why a lot of people flee from Christianity. And it's super sad. I had that same issue, Tamra, exactly what you're talking about in an open Facebook posts. People can search for it. It'd be hard to find it cause it's so buried deep, but a fellow Christian. And again, it's just, they love Jesus.
I believe him, except Christ. That's a given, you know, so I'm not going there, but meaning what I'm trying to make. And he goes to my church by the way, to ever go to my church. So I posted something in those who know me, well said, Ramon, I don't get. But once in a while, if the lines here Ramon goes right here, that's just me.
I'm a public figure as you are, but we choose to express that differently. So certain things, if you read between the lines, you know what I'm saying? Point is I did something, this guy, he flamed another, another, uh, a girl who was on the chat. He blamed her and I had to publicly nicely berate him. But the point I was trying to make chairman, I think you're saying this.
He's a Christian. I'm not that type of Christian. See what he just said? No, I, I'm not calling her that. So I have to somehow do that if I'm, if I'm hearing what you're saying, because listen, we all have a walk. We have a faith, but those who were like, you know, take my good old pen again. Oh, these people are evil.
They're wicked. I'm the first to jump up and say, Hey, I'm wicked to. Me too. Yeah. I a hundred percent. Do I think that is the imperfection, right. And the simplicity of the understanding that we're all human at the core level. Uh, this was our conversation. We were starting around diversity and equity and racism and all of these different pieces that you and I are both really passionate about.
And why I think that the partnership that we've created is even that much more powerful in the people understanding, oh, wow. They, when they say brother and sister, this is what they mean rather than. I figured in we're all brothers and sisters in Christ, but behind your back or even to your face nowadays, this is the combat that's going to exist.
No for sure. For sure. There's nothing worse than even talking about these five guys. We didn't even start with what the dominant denomination is in all those things. Only we met together for the first time in person, like at a retreat five guys, retreat. Our wives were so jealous. Can we come? Not this year?
You know, but afterwards we got into denomination and stuff, but to your point, Tim, We just started being five guys who love each other. Love Jesus. That's the common core. I love it. And I'm curious because I have a, quite a few friends who are PK kids. You've met actually two of them at the conference. You might not know that their PK kids, Anthony Hart is a PK kid and Joseph Stallings, who was the lead singer of the session.
Collective is also a PK kid to the point that they were going to start a podcast called the PK kids. I don't know if that's exactly what the land on, but I think it's a really interesting piece. And you mentioned it briefly that. Maybe not fully way word, but you had that prodigal experience after being raised in a home like that.
What would you say to either the child who is currently a PK kid or the prodigal who is looking or searching for something different than what they experienced? Yeah. And the summary of it, just to recap that, you know, I was raised in a Christian home, but didn't know Jesus, but I was raised in a home, you know, as they say, you can work at McDonald's and not be hamburger or something like that, something like that.
But I was that, and then I did have an experience, but I don't know, you know, some people, those listening are you Tamra, you were saved 27 times before you're 18. You know, you went to the altar and all those things, but. Point is, and I did it. I was say baptized all these things. The point is I went away from God, didn't my son.
He was old enough. He left our home in a contentious way, but in a good way, we, we loved him and talked to him, but he left her home. He wanted to live his life. So when he left him right. To decide, okay, I don't have to kind of pretend anymore. I don't have to in my daughter was there and I loved her, but relationship was different.
I don't have to just have a young man next to me, to be an example. Let's read the Bible son. I don't I'm free. And that was for like 30 seconds metaphorically. I had to really think, is there a God who. Is it Jesus or somebody else? I had to walk a PK. I had to walk myself in re salvation myself and thank God the equation.
I got to do some things. My father went to, he died due to some duress, but, but it was part of his faith that really helped me. So what I'm trying to say is that helps. So to the product, go to the PK. I think that a few things I'll say is that one. Main thing is you have to have your own salvation. I think many of us have been pressured to, oh, Tamra said I got to wear red shirts all day, especially depending on how conservative and you know, your, your family was and your parents, or love you assuming they did and did the best they could.
They, they thought you had to wear red shirts on Thursday night, right? Terrible. You know what I'm going? Right. They said, you have to, or bad things will happen to you. I'll leave it at that to be gentle, but you've got it with.
All those things and maybe it's right. Maybe it's wrong. Who knows? But my point is, as you're an adult, now you have to experience Jesus Christ for yourself. And as I say, you know, reading your Bible prayer, focus on that and do that as best you can. And forgive us, forgive us who are not shown Christ or where we should meet.
I've had to ask my children to forgive me for some things I've done, but in my innocence wanting them to do right. So I hope that's helpful, but understand Jesus on your own. There's all why you have a breath, there's time to come back. And if you don't believe, maybe believe in God, you're not sure which version as it were.
You believe in, pray, talk to others, get help from somebody who you trust. Maybe who maybe you've been hurt by person X. You were hurt by Ramon, but, but, but you, you know, I have a good heart, but you just can't stand up. Co Tamra as it were in this conversation, you know, the three of us, you know what I mean?
So that's some things I would help, but that's what brought me back was just also the conversation with others in my church, who I wasn't bitter with, who were the cool guy, right. Who were, like I said, brother, his name was Brian, me and him sat in the car and I cursed him out, cried him out, yelled at him.
So Kara, I got you. Go ahead. And that was a part that I could just open up. Yeah. I think that there's a lot of power in that understanding of like, we start looking through an empathetic lens when we come into that relationship, because everyone who has tried to deposit or has done the best that they can, you actually give that credit to give that honor to versus pointing the finger that they didn't do it right?
Or, well, And it's their fault that we're in a specific situation. I've definitely been in that own state, in my own heart and in relationships. And so many things that it took my like utter surrender and my hands, like open to say it was nobody's fault. It's my, also my choice, that's the freewill component.
And I see what Jesus has done in every relationship that I've had. Um, and I'm grateful for. One of the things that I wanted to circle back to, which is going to pivot this conversation to like the finale point here is, is this understanding of this word that you use in your branding? And I don't know if you've ever heard my take on hustle.
Have you ever heard of my take on,
I have a hard time with this hustle culture. Right. Mainly because of the same thing that I shared on stage, like busy versus intentional, uh, even the word grind, because the Bible tells us that his, his burden is light, right? His yoke is easy and his burden is light. And so when I think about hustling and I think about grinding, I think it triggers inside of me, the rat wheel of the American dream that I lived on for nearly a decade.
Um, really three decades. Consciously from 20 to 30 where I was entrepreneurship business. And it's going to tie back to our initial conversation. I was grinding and also checking the box of getting married, finishing college, getting married, having a baby, having another baby boy first got like all of those things.
And recognizing that I was completely burnt out and I was living on supersonic speed. Um, and realizing that hustling, no matter what I was doing in any facet of life was actually leading me to burn out depression, anxiety, suicidal ideation, and a separate business from God. And so when I came into like a new pace and that's the opposite word that I would use is like this pace and structure and alignment that we can live.
It doesn't mean I'm less busy. Doesn't mean I'm less overwhelmed sometimes, especially as an entrepreneur, doesn't mean that I'm not waking up at the wee hours of the morning and going to sleep. Actually, I go to bed really early. My community knows this about me, but I'm curious when you went to name smart hustle, what does that mean to you?
Because it doesn't mean my lens is right or wrong. It's just my particular. I love the choice to describe, and I'll probably use this to describe someone else, but before I do it, let me ask you two questions. Uh, uh, first Matt, may I be the host for 10 seconds? Everybody? My name is Ramona. Right. Welcome to the Tamra Andrew's podcast, fitting faith podcast.<