• Tamra Andress

Parenting Children with the Father's Love with Pam Snyder

Today I had the pleasure of interviewing Pam Snyder. We talked about how parenting is hard, and there are some hard things that have to happen in raising tiny humans. Pam is a master parent coach and a gentle baby sleep specialist, which is an amazing combination from birth on up into those crazy teenage years and even beyond honestly.

Through her coaching program at Fruitful Families Coaching, she serves you abundantly through her heart and through the lens of our Father in Heaven.

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About Pam:

Pam is a Master Parenting Coach and Gentle Baby and Child Sleep Specialist who walks parents into freedom and joy in their parenting by helping them to model the Gospel in their home. Through her Heal, Have, Hope method she has helped end sleepless nights, tantrums, sibling rivalry, listening difficulties, difficult family transitions and so much more in hundreds of families for the last decade. There is freedom and joy to be found in parenting, and when we live out the Gospel in our homes these things flow in abundance. She is on a mission to end Generational Trauma and the pain of Generational Parenting and walks alongside the Lord as he brings healing and restoration to the family unit.

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Show Notes: Parenting Children with the Father's Love

I know parenting is hard. I get it between the snuggles and the kisses and the laughter and the tickles. Of course, there's some hard things that have to happen in raising tiny humans and Pam Snyder. Today's guest is an expert in her. She's actually a master parent coach and a gentle baby. The sleep specialist, which is an amazing combination from birth on up into those crazy teenage years and even beyond honestly, but really she even has taught me to repair it myself, which if you have any childhood trauma, you know, the importance of that.

And so she helps with trans from, she helps with sibling rivalry and difficulties and family transitions. Oh, gosh, uh, hundreds of other families in the last decade, she's supported in so many different, you know, issues, if you will, we've all got them. It's okay. I'll raise my hand alongside you. But fruitful families, coaching is meant to serve you.

And that is what she does abundantly through the heart, through the lens of our father in heaven. And it is a special, and so I hope that you tune in, you're going to gain some amazing nuggets in today's conversation, but also go follow her. It's called shameless parenting. We all need more of it because I have no regard to be able to guess or shame or anything.

You, I can't think of the right words, but do you understand no pointing fingers because that need three it's pointing back in. The end of the day, I celebrate you friend. I celebrate you doing this hard, but blessful blissful as less always, you get that job. It's a gift. So thanks for tuning into Fitbit podcast.

Be sure to leave her a review, follow us if you're not already and give him some love, we would love to connect with you. We're in the community together, and it's been a joy.

Welcome to the fit and faith podcast fit is an acronym representing founders, innovators, and trailblazers who are looking to live a life wholly, fully, authentically, and truly fit as space for us to connect on the raw real stories of mind, body, and soul alignment of entrepreneurs. And kingdom leaders.

I'm your host, Tamra and dress. And this podcast, isn't like the cookie cutter interview experience. I've been coined the entrepreneurial rabbi. And so we do go there unscripted, no matter how far wide, deep or high there is. My desire is to see people rise from the inside, out, into their greatest calling, by sharing their truest stories.

And tips as a purpose activator and brand builder. I believe our successes and failures are derived from who and whose we are not what we do, but strategy and vision are equally as important to the mission. So let's cut to the chase together and get fit in faith.

Hello? Hello. I was so excited for this show today with the one and only Pamela Snyder, my dear friend, and an expert in all things parenting. And I know that there is utter grace and also surrender as she hears that because Lord knows when you're in the midst of motherhood, it doesn't matter how much wisdom or expertise or education you have.

There are some moments where we need to practice breath, work. So I'm excited that you're here to bring peace and a shameless parenting experience today for all of the mama's and data's, and soon to be, or, um, long, long removed. Right. And thinking through all of the different realms of parenthood and families and fruitful family.

So Pam, I'm so grateful to have you here. I'm so honored to be here. Thanks for having me. It's going to be so good because if you guys didn't know, Pam has also already been on the podcast, which is very rare. There's only two people ever in all of the longevity of the fit and paid podcasts who have been on the podcast twice.

And you're the second. So I'm excited. You, you have so much to give so much value to give. And the first one was really from a realm of like experiencing coaching with me. And though you got to share, there was so much more and breadth of knowledge that you bring that I'm excited for people to be able to hear.

So for those who are tuning in live. See, we're grateful for you. Feel free to jot any thoughts or ideas or questions for a master parent coach. Who's going to talk to us about how she fell into this experience. And God continues to reveal himself through the programs that she offers and her wisdom as she develops.

So Pam let's, let's hear the backstory. Let's hear about like your, maybe evolution into desiring to do this for the world, for the kingdom. Um, and what's your parent journey has. Yes. Oh my goodness. There's a lot to unpack there. Right. Um, okay. So first and foremost, um, I, I started out, you know, all of us leave college, um, and think we know what we're going to do with our lives, right.

Or don't, don't even make it the college route. Cause we're not sure what we're doing with our lives. And I knew for a very long time that I was called into ministry. Um, I just didn't know what that would look like. Um, in our day and age growing up, there was not a whole lot of women pastors, if they were women, pastors, they were children's ministers.

So that's the route I went. Um, so we, I actually started in elementary education, then moved into healthcare for a little while, um, had my first kiddo, um, and. Back this way is about 16 years ago. There was not a whole lot on parenting. There were a few parenting books, really few Christian parenting books, especially those that aligned with the way I wanted to do things.

And I knew then there was a little seed planted of there's a, there's a vacant spot here there's help is needed here. And God planted that seed, but didn't really, there was nothing, no fruition from it. And years down the road, um, and did, uh, having my second baby, uh, was in ministry at this point, working for the church, doing children's and women's ministry.

And it was so abundantly clear at that point that there were so many women really struggling with faith as a whole. Where their influence was wanted, needed, appreciated as well as how do we do this parenting journey and raise our children in crisis. Really, well, there was not resources for it. Um, and our generation started sort of the generation of the lack of community a bit.

Um, there wasn't as much moms helping moms or, or, um, generational households. We were sort of on our own figuring this out. And so as I walked into that, I first knew that. There were so many mamas struggling with sleep. And I was one of them and being sleep deprived brings us to such a place of desperation of darkness.

Um, people don't link the lack of sleep with what it does to our nervous system and what it does to our soul, what it can sometimes do to our faith. Um, The amount of moms in pure desperation, feeling like failures, feeling like they weren't called to this motherhood piece. Um, it's heartbreaking. And I could sit right beside them in the rocking chair, three 30 in the morning, sobbing over my child, thinking.

I must have heard wrong. I must've heard the call wrong. Um, and so in that space, God just really took that seed that he had planted many, many years ago and said, it's the time. It's the time. And I actually had very dear friends in the church, in New York city at that time, um, that spoke over me and said, I'm hearing God tell me that this is the time of.

Yeah, thank God for affirmation, right? Gosh. So grateful. Thank God. So this space that I'm learning more and more every day, um, where Christianity, um, the gospel really specifically, um, the freedom of the gospel, the shamelessness of living in the gospel and parenting and motherhood, and just being a woman who believes in the gospel and believes in the Lord.

This murky water place, um, is where I exist and where I coached from. Um, and seeing the beauty in what happens in a family and what happens in children, in what happens in parenting when we are living from this place of Tamra. And I talk a lot about embodiment of embodying the gospel. Literally living in the shamelessness and running the race for Christ, what that does in our homes, what that does for our children and what that looks for, or it looks like meshed with the scientific research principles of gentle parenting.

How about, well, there's a lot to unpack. I mean, thinking through just like the first component of. Uh, women kind of being boxed into the fact that we're meant to only run in the children ministry realm. So there's a whole conversation about that. And, and when I remember when I had little ones and I first went to a church with two top.

And I was in a space of desperation at that point I was broken. I was definitely sleep deprived. Right. And I definitely think speaking just to the importance of sleep, not just for your babies, but the sleep for you as a mom or a parent is really critical. But I remember they wanted me to volunteer in the nursery and I remember feeling shame over the fact that I don't want to do this.

I feel bad for the people who are in there because they're doing it week by week by week. But I literally had to say, I actually need to be in the service. Like I need this distance from my child at this point. I also need to hear what God is saying. I need to worship. I need to just be poured into in this season of feeling completely.

Like I was always pouring out into my kids and my marriage at that point. And. Feeling that sense of shame in the church with this is not where you're going to, you know, necessarily put your time and energy, but you're so good with kids. I'm like, yeah, I know I'm good with kids, but I need a break. Right? I get that.

I know that I could teach. I know that I could be the preschool Sunday teacher. I know I'd be great at it, but right now this is. My season to do that. And so I ended up volunteering in like the tech side and doing like keynote, um, you know, the presentations and the worship songs and stuff like that. But I was able to still serve in a different place than where they wanted me to be placed, because I was like, anywhere that I can be inside the service, I want to show up, but I can't be with the kids.

I'm going to go nutty. If I have to drive back another 30 minutes after just spinning with crying babies. I think there's a whole conversation to that. And I would love to hear, like, how do we step out of one positioning women only in that frame of mind when it comes to our kiddos associated to the church, and then simultaneous to that, like, what do you speak into the mom who has the mom guilt for not wanting to be with.

Kid all the time. And I want to make sure that we're gender neutral in this because you serve men as well. You serve. And I think dads have this same sense of feeling depending on what placement they are in their realm as a parent. Um, so I'd love to hear your. Absolutely first touching on that. You know, I'm able to give my testimony from a place of a mom from a place of a woman, but my heart for fathers and what men as a whole, uh, what the male, um, fatherhood piece, as it evolves here in this beautiful season, I've realizing how much men can do are doing that.

We're both living in this state. Um, so much compassion for both sides and what it comes down to is parenting as a whole. We all feel guilt. Um, it's, it is the most driving force in our parenting is what I'm learning. Um, The amount of parenting decisions, um, that are made out of this guilt shame filled place, as opposed to this place of freedom and, um, and just joyfulness, uh, that's where we need to shift the perspective actually living in the freedom of Christ.

Um, but as to the question about women in the church and this position that we're put in often it's getting better, right? The Lord. Always, always showing up from a place of compassion and curiosity comes first. And first and foremost, that comes towards ourselves as parents, as women or fathers, men coming from a place of compassion and curiosity, why.

Why, why am I being asked to do this? Is it truly my zone of genius? Is it truly my realm where I'm called to serve? Or is it simply because, right. There's the, um, I think it's called the lullaby, the lullaby principle, um, where, because we've heard it so long, we've seen it done this way so long. We're just accepting it.

We're just accepting it. Um, There was a great sermon given by the pastor at my church the other week about this, about how we just, we fall into these ruts often in the church of because it's been working and it seems to work. We just continue going that direction. And the same thing happens with parenting, um, as women that were put into these categories and we stay there because there's comfort there there's discomfort and growth.

So. First looking at it with curiosity and compassion. Why am I here? Why, why are we in this place? And then looking at it with compassionate, did that make sense? It makes sense that that's where women have served. And, but where am I actually being called? And what does it look like to move into that space in the freedom of the gospel and that we can do all things through Christ and that growth and change is actually part of the gospel.

I think a huge component of growth and change that I've witnessed is is this knowing that like, Dad's actually have a massive responsibility, like, and I think because we carry them, literally physically carry the child, that it, for some reason, supersedes like that our opinion or our ability to mother is more important than the ability or the need for the father to be there.

Especially if the father has taken on the provider role in the sense that they're at work more. And so the wife is at home. I'm not pro one or the other. My husband would love if he has to be a stay at home dad, he would just, he wants to do it and you will. I'm going to retire him soon. Don't you worry?

That's the hope. That's on my goal list on our vision board, but it's this knowing that there is an equal impact. Like it's such an equal importance. And it wasn't really, until I came into my faith aligned to my parenthood, that I understood the value that he brought to the table when it came to nurturing our children cause nurturing and empathy and.

Forgiveness and love and cuddles. You always think go towards the mom, but what power it is brought and what comfort it is brought to witness. My kids experienced that from their father versus the father playing the role of, um, provider, um, disciplinary, um, you know, all the like masculine roles. Yeah. W if he can lean in, if she can lean in both me and him can lean into our masculine and feminine character traits that God has created in an ordained us to have it allows for so much more, I think, and peaceful parenting peace in the home because they can trust you.

In both sides, they can trust you for the discipline. They can trust you for the correction, we'll call it, but they can also trust you for the comfort. And so talk to us about like your research in that and knowing like, we're that concept of like we're living in a fatherless nation. We hear this a lot through church.

Why, how do we change and grow into what I believe God called us to when it came, comes to shameless. Absolutely. And this is why I'm in this realm, right? So there's a lot to unpack here as well, but where, where it really like. Is there are two concepts. The concept of gentle peaceful parenting is born from something called empowered parenting.

So the old parenting model, um, that we saw that was claimed as biblical from that lullaby principle, right. What's called power over or authoritarian parents. And what this means is that we use consequences and shame and punishment to teach. Um, there's a lot more that goes into that. But again, compassion, curiosity from that space.

It made sense at that time, it made sense. This is the stories they were being told the stories we tell ourselves. Gentle parenting comes from the position of empowerment. We went to empower our children. And what happens when we say that quite often, is that it triggers something in those of us that have been conditioned in power over parenting that that equals entitlement.

We are not, we are not saying that empowerment equals entitled. What we are looking for is to raise children in Christ, in love, in all of the fruits of the spirit that are able to make decisions that on their own, that represent the love of Christ. The way that is done is through modeling. So biblically the word discipline.

Does not mean punish consequence, um, isolate, put, put someone in a corner to look at a wall. It means to bring in and to teach to nurture debts with disciple means that's how Jesus taught. So Jesus lived the gospel. He lived the love of Christ. He lived empowerment. He left the woman at the well empowered.

He didn't say go, you know, he, he never even told disciples specifically, go put on your shoes, go put on your clothes. Yeah, because you get time out, close your door, go to your room. Yeah. What he did was empower people. He empowered them to want to share the gospel. He empowered them to have this joy and freedom and run this race that is gentle Christian parenting.

It's saying I will disciple you. I will model this love. I will bring you in and nurture you to, we've talked a lot Tamra about my stance on there is such a. Such a, um, gosh, I don't know how an, a measurement with the way that we honor our children's mistakes, the way that we realize we are all fallen. We are all sinners.

And that as children are learning, they're not failing. They're learning these mistakes are learning experiences. Will there be times it feels like they're doing it on purpose? Sure, sure. And that's something we walk through in the whole gentle parenting realm. The stories we tell ourselves as parents, when our kids make mistakes, because that's what it comes down to is how are we reacting to the stories we're hearing in our head when our childrens are making this.

And us showing up in that space with this unconditional love of the heavenly father and saying, wow, where are you feeling right now? What's happening right now? That that just happened. And how can I help? How can I love you in this space? How can I show up in this space? And we can do it better next. How can we create an environment in our home and in our parenting that our children run to us when they've done something wrong, instead of away from us.

And the importance of that you said, that's how they learn to run to the heavenly father. We put an end, a generational end to their being shame with. Hmm, this is so good. And so connected to a lot of my learned lessons as a child and my learnt lessons as a parent and being on the other side of what discipline versus disciple means.

And I loved how you said empowered parenting does not equal entitlements. I think that there's this huge conversation happening that our kids are entirely. Um, but there's a lot happening too, giving them too much of their ownership, too much of their own. Ability to make decisions and have choices when they're so young and they're so young, like, right.

Like they don't have the ability to conceptualize. They have nobody. Who's asking them these hard questions. Tell me what you're feeling. Tell me why did you decide to make that decision? Tell me more about that. Tell me who helped you say yes to that choice and why were you associated to them? Right. Like learning about.

Friendships connected to inner turmoil and inner stories. And it's really changed my perspective. I see my kids get older and I love the, the vision of, you know, obviously it's like the prodigal son, right. Coming back to the. That recently I've been doing a reading called a rim around Rembrandt's painting, and it's called the return of the prodigal son and his painting, which is world renowned.

Uh, it, it often allows ourself, even that story of the prodigal son to lend ourselves as the prodigal son, like we can raise our hand and be like, yeah, I remember when I returned to my father now, I haven't had that return to the father in the fleshly term to my own dad. I yearn for it. I think a lot of females specifically do, which is why we see some, we get, that's a whole nother conversation.

We see some deterioration and femininity too. But the point of this matter is that in that role that the father played, there's actually this whole other sibling experience that's taking place with his other son. And it brought to life. The son that did stay at home, the son that did quote unquote follow the rules, the son that you know, was going out and working the farm and earned the legacy.

And yet there was this unconditional love of the father that it didn't matter which choice the child made. He loved them both endlessly. And so recognizing that you might have the wild child and you might have the really sweet and innocent child, who's probably still wild, but they're just not telling you, like it's in.

And so bringing these different facets and features of who they are out and allowing it to be in this shame-free. Um, my friend called it when her kids were little that I thought was so interesting. I remember the first time I saw it time in instead of time. And she literally would be like, oh, I really wish you didn't make that decision.

That wasn't, you know, it didn't make her feel good. It didn't make them feel good that wasn't, you know, timely. I'd love for you to just come sit next to me for a little bit. And I was, my kids were babies at this point. It was like, what is happening? Because all I ever knew was timeout lectures. Sam and the foreigner don't touch that ever again.

We're not going to talk about it. It just is the rule. This is the rule and therefore you follow the rules and it totally made me see how religion was something I couldn't follow. It actually made me fall out of alignment with even Christianity, because I couldn't see anybody else exampling. What was being written in the word.

And this place that you speak to from the gospel and from parenting. And that blend reminds me so much of like business and the gospel in business story that I speak to every day. And it's this, this knowing that if we can put them together, how much more joy filled, how much more grace-filled and how much more God wants to reveal to us even today as parents, when I've got, haven't gotten it all figured out.

Yeah. Um, but I love the way that you, you put all these different words together that I had never actually heard before. So I hope people are taking notes. I had to pull my notebook out cause I wanted to make sure I kept note to it, um, to bring light to it through, through this and the difference between authoritative parenting and that grace-filled empowered, parenting peaceful parenting is so powerful.

Absolutely. And you use the word I love when you used the word earning, you know, the son that stayed home and felt like he was deserved. He had a, her dad, he worked so hard and this power over parenting model of rewarding and consequences for behavior versus identity. So rewarding behaviors. Causes this constant striving mentality, this constant, oh, maybe if I do this it'll work.

So maybe if I try this little work or just this, the rat race mentality, right. That we're running through quicksand, it's exhausting. And it leads us to a place where we can't find our identity. We no longer who we were made, we no longer know who we were made to be. So instead speaking into your children, not necessarily complementing what they're doing.

Complimenting and speaking into them who they are. So I say so often, it's actually a really good, let's do a lesson here real quick, simple sports casting. I'm sure some parents know what sports casting in what sports casting is. It's simply saying what you see going on. I see you. Doing, you know, drawing that cat purple, what an interesting color giving attention to what they're doing, but the, the compliment coming in the character.

So I love how you have sat and worked so hard on this. Look how long you've stayed focused. Wow. I see. Recognizing the character traits, calling out the character traits that you see in your children, as opposed to the striving of earning what happened in that brother of the prodigal son then, right?

Resentment, jealousy, envy, all the things that Jesus came to end. And so when it comes to siblings in the home, not making it about the. It's never about the doing it's about the being, who are they being? Who are your children being in that moment? What does their being offer your family and how does it help your family thrive?

Our family wouldn't be the same if you weren't so compassionate, Waverly, our family wouldn't be the same, you know, Cooper. If you didn't have this joy in this life that you bring to every day, those pieces are the pieces we want to be calling out. And it's just, it's so pivotal to not make our love, our affection, any of those pieces around that is not, there's two things that I wanted to take note too, because Pam has been such an influence to our lives as parents.

And also just like the knowing. There was other people doing it. Right. Um, and that we kind of looked crazy sometimes like people that is not the way I would respond to that. Why aren't you reprimanding him? And I remember that a lot, especially when he was little where he, he couldn't control his temperature, his temperature, his temp.

What am I trying to say in Denver? I was like, wait, now I can't say his timber or his energy level or any of those things. And that it was conducive for the fact that he needed a timeout. He needed to be reprimanded. Um, and my daughter on the opposite end, who was like, why isn't she speaking up for herself?

Why isn't she talking? Why isn't it? Like, she's not responding to me. I'm talking to her. Right. And it was just that she was shy, which I also don't like to speak out these, like, phraseologies over the. But call out their greatness, but to think through, without doing that, how we've allowed that life or that compassion or those components to them to really thrive and shine, because we didn't reprimand them in the process.

Um, a quick example that is associated to all of these things is even now as they've grown, my son, for instance, he'll get in the car right after school. And he'll just vomit, all the things that he did wrong that day and cutest thing. Cause you're like, oh, and like, of course immediately you're like, oh my gosh, why didn't the teacher told me about this?

Or w I don't know that that's the best thing that should be happening at school, or you're thinking of all these stories, but instead we're just like, wow. You know, thank you so much for being honest. How did that. I feel, how does it feel right now? And he's like, I've been holding it in my belly all day.

Right. And so thinking through just that grace-filled space, I don't even have to reprimand him. He's done it to himself. Like when we do something wrong and we're carrying guilt, it's enough punishment half of the time. Right. So if we can bring air to it and we can then just extract, what was, what were you thinking?

Why did you do that? What can we do next time? What would be a better way that we. Bond. It gives them such grace and safety as a parent, rather than feeling like they have to flee, run and hide, and then carry that to their deathbed. I remember as an adult being like, so remember that one time, like, and sharing with my parents now, what I was doing, feeling experiencing as a child that I never felt like I had the opportunity to share because I was going to get in trouble at that time or that they were going to, you know, continue to lecture me or I was going to lose my phone or any of those things.

Um, so I just wanted to bring life to the fact that there is another way to do it. And even as you were talking, I was thinking through the spelling tests that we have every Friday, I practice every day, the spelling words on the way to school on the way home, a part of their homework. And when they get them all.

Or they miss a couple, Gary always will get down at their level and be like, so how was it today? What did you get on your test? Did you get, you know, your, your 12 out of 12 or 10 out of 10 and you know, they're super proud when they get them. All right. And he's like, that's awesome. Do I love you anymore?

Because you got to 12 out as well. Is the question that he asks and I will always say no. And they're like, no, you don't love me anymore because I'm smarter today. Do I love you any less? Because you missed one or two and they go, now you love me more. And because we say, I love you more, every. Right. And it doesn't matter what your actions are.

We just view. And that's the father's role in that prodigal son versus the son who stayed home. And so encouraging parents to then you get one wrong. You have a tough day, you make a wrong decision. You get called out by the teacher and you don't get the sticker for the day. That's the day that you take them to ice cream.

What if that's the day that you cuddle up closer and you have a movie time that you don't usually do, or that's the day that you celebrate just who they are, how that would change their perspective on choosing. What's right versus wrong, or just choosing the grace way the next time. But knowing regardless, they're fully loved that they can trust you.

And it's not based on just behavior that you love. Yes, absolutely.

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When we're talking about living in this freedom as parents and offering this freedom to our children, none of us will be able to run and live in full freedom without safety. It just will not happen. We will hear it. We will hear it and we will want it. We will long for it cause it's how God created us.

But there has to be this atmosphere of safety. And that is the, the main difference between authoritarian parenting and this gentle parenting concept, this gospel centered parenting concept, um, and that when we create these places of safety and belonging, all like my favorite word on the planet, we have assigned in my house that says you belong here.

This, this place where a child can come, just like Gary, it expresses in my house. We say, um, is there anything you could do to let that would make me love you more? No. Is there anything you could do that would make me love you less? No. Will I love you forever and ever? Yes. So just really this, the same concept, you know, it doesn't come back to what they do comes back to who they are and we know who they are.

Because we know where the heavenly father created them to be. We know he creates things in, in perfect beauty and fearlessly and wonderfully, and that is what we call out of them. Um, and that concept, like you said, I've failing forward. Every every failure is not a failure. It's a learning period. So shifting that, you know, when, when Cooper comes in the car and says, I feel it in my belly and it feels so good to get it out to say, so what did we learn?

That is an awesome learning experience. Shifting the perspective to like, I'm so glad that happened. Awesome. What do we have to learn from that? Um, and we will call them epic learning experiences when they were really bad, like really embarrassing, you know, my Magnolia will be like, it was so embarrassing, epic learning experience, how awesome, um, you know, just really shifting the perspective from shame and how, why did I let that, you know, the stories that we tell ourselves, these limiting beliefs.

How could I let that happen? Why would I do a thing like that? Those types of limiting beliefs are born in the place for Cooper and Waverley. All right now, and why we have them is because of the lack of safety, the lack of freedom, because this just wasn't, this just wasn't a thing. When we were cased so much compassion for our parents who did it the best they knew and loved us, but just offering this space.

And like you said, where the dichotomy sometimes comes in is that the father, the man, the provider quite often in Christianity and in lots of realms is supposed to be the powerful one. And in compassion that's because he's supposed to be protecting his household. But shifting that lens with fathers as Gary has too, that protection should look like safety, not like.

Grit power of you. We'll do this the way I say, you know, in my home, because that's not our father, that's not our heavenly father. So I love the way that you presented that. And just knowing that I always say 80%, 90%, sometimes 99% of parenting is how we show up in the space. Our kiddos are going to show up where they are developmentally age appropriate behavior, all of those pieces that it's so important to know you were talking a little earlier about expectations and that's a whole nother conversation as well as to what we should truly be expecting from our children.

But how we show up, are we regulated? Are we grounded in truth? Are we grounded in the father's love for us? So where you were in that place in children's ministry, when your babies were little and you were going, actually, I literally don't have that to give right now. So ensuring that we as parents. Are fully rooted, fully grounded in the father's love for us.

That's just the space we'll show up in. Will we make mistakes? My goodness. Yes. I yelled yesterday. It really? And then it's, shall we act in that space at that point? Modeling? I go, I will say to my kids, oh my goodness. That was not a kind way to speak to you. That was not honoring. That was not respectful. I am so sorry.

And just sitting in that space of I'm so thankful for forgiveness. So thankful for the safety and the love in this house and speaking that out loud. So they know that, you know, and then I say, what a learning experience. I love you.

Uh, and then I think what's really like one of the questions on live right now was how can one really all of this to God, the father, whether you're a parent or not a parent, it's this, knowing that the way we're speaking is us emulating what Jesus did here on earth and what God does for us every single day.

And I love that this is being recorded during holy week that we get to example just who Jesus was. All of the honoring ways that we can, how he treated his disciples, his friends, the people closest to him is no different than how we would treat our children. In some regard. It's like, would you yell out at your friend?

Right? Would you reprimand them? Would you put them in time out because they came to you after they told you they did something wrong. Like there's of course not necessarily this like equality in age, but there's this equality and love to God, no matter where you are. No matter who you are, no matter what the backstory is.

And so we can't judge our children based on our expectations or our experience or how we would respond to something they're different people. Jesus literally responded to each of the disciples, different. When they were being silly when they were choosing the wrong thing, he didn't respond the exact same way.

He responded in what they needed. And so that's been one of my biggest learned lessons as a parent is I can't parent Cooper the same way that I parent Waverley, they don't respond. They don't receive the same way. Our conversations are very different. The way we play together is very different. And yet. I still maintain that Jesus like that fatherly, like, and I say, father with femininity, obviously motherly role in their life based on how God has loved me and God has forgiven me and God has shown up for me.

And so, um, I hope that speaks to your question, Kelly. And if you want to speak to it as well, Pam, um, just the, the modeling that we're doing as we learn who Jesus and God are to us every single day, even. Yeah. I think speaking to that two pieces one is that we are all children of God. We are all works in progress.

As Tamar says, we are always becoming and knowing that as we are, those works in progress and he is loving us through that. And in that way, and none of us are going to be, um, perfection on this side of heaven that having that expectation over our children, That's oppressive. Um, that's too much. They will never meet that.

And that will lead to that striving that we don't want. Striving is the opposite of freedom assists of each other. We cannot give you both. Um, and so just really speaking to that, if we truly believe the gospel and we truly believe that God has gone before us, he knew our story as he knit us together in our mother's womb.

That these little humans have a story. They have a purpose and a plan. God knows exactly what he's doing. And we are simply here to walk alongside him, love them and provide them fleshly safety on this earth. They are an honor. They are a privilege to have. They're not a burden. They are not a, um, a task are an honor to get to shepherd.

And Jesus always treated people with the highest honor people that other people wouldn't speak to. People that only saw the sin in people. My favorite, one of my favorite favorite parts of the gospel is when Jesus draws the line in the sand. Yeah. And, and, you know, let, he always never sinned throw the first stone and that's same that same ideology.

When it comes to our children, they deserve the same honor and respect that we do. Their mistakes are no bigger, no lesser than ours. Ours are no bigger, no lesser than they. And in that same breath, I can feel like it just in my intuition and the triggers that are happening in people right now. When we talk about these things, all of the stories come to us like, well, then if there's equality, who's teaching, who's leading who's what's happening to these children.

Remember that grace filled gospel centered gentle parenting is not permitted. Jesus was not permissive. He did not say, go do whatever you want and I'll let you, you know, and it's going to be okay. No, he said, I'll love you no matter what you do, but I will show you the way. And the reason I will show you the way is because I want you to have this.

I desperately wants you to live in this freedom and love of the father and the story of the gospel. And I want it so much that I will die. And I will get all kinds of emotional. So we will not talk about this, but this week always gets me every time. But our heavenly father sent his son to the cross to die a very painful death for us to live in freedom for our children to have that freedom.

That is not permissive. That is hard, just hard work for all of us. And so just being open to flipping the switch or flipping the perspective to that, allowing someone to become the fullness of who they've been made in Christ, it's not permissive. It's a beautiful becoming in the words of Tamra, it's watching them become.

It's being witnessed to their becoming it's holding space and safety and guidance in their becoming that's exactly what Jesus did. It's exactly what he did. She says washed their feet. He didn't yell at them and tell them, this is how we do this. How dare you? What a poor choice when man, we read some of those stories and may were silly, is a good word, Tamra hysterical.

Some of the choices that they need. That just, you still have me. Did I cut out on you? No, I'm here for you. You got it? Oh, no, no. I got you fully. Oh no, no, no. You're good, Tim. I see you. You're great. She keeps saying, oh no, but I. I don't know why she keeps saying, oh, no, but I hear her perfectly. I see you back here.

You're good. Oh my goodness. You're good. Oh my goodness. Hold on. We're going to try hooking up to a hot spot here. All right. We're going to pop because she thinks she's not here, but she's with us. And I just want you guys to know. Pam is such a resource. She is a light. She is a life giving. You can hear just by the sweetness of her soul and the way that she speaks that this is not just a fleeting business.

This is truly her mission. This is her ministry. This is her business story here on earth. And that God has really ordained and sustained her to. Serve you to show up for you to answer the hard questions when it comes to parenting, to be a space of kindness, to be a space of grace. And so if you are looking and need support in this realm, it doesn't matter if your kiddos or infants or your kiddos are removed from home.

If you need to like follow through in the. In the concept of being a better parent of serving on a greater capacity of serving in, um, even just understanding your child, you need to be reprinted. One of the things I love that Pam has taught. Is that she actually helps the parent more than she's helping the child.

A lot of people come to a parenting experience and they're thinking, I need you to fix my kid. Right. You see those shows back in the day, like the kids were acting out wildly and the people would come to fix the kid. When really it was, they needed an environmental shift. They needed a mindset shift.

We're always supposed to be renewing our minds, even as parents towards the perspectives of what's happening in society. We are living in. Hard time as parents devices are a real conversation access that our kids have is a real conversation. The educational system is a real conversation, and I know that through this process of parenting, that we can fight these hard battles just as Jesus did in peace.

He did it with authority. Yes, but he did it with peace. And so I think that there are some beautiful concepts that even I am still learning and leaning into. That Pam teaches every single day. If you guys didn't know, Pam has an incredible podcast, it's called the shameless parenting podcast. Highly recommend you tune into that.

She'll also be having a chapter, her chapter in the joyful anthology I know is going to be speaking to this too. I'm giving you a pitch right now, Pam, for all the things that you are and inviting people into your parenting experiences, both in group and. Experiences. So making sure that they get connected to you on Instagram, fruitful families, coaching, and I'm really just learning and gleaning from the lessons that you've learned firsthand, but also the studies and education that you've put in as the expert that.

Oh, thanks friends. Yes. We love you. We never lost you by the way you lost you. But we had full service the whole time, so we're like, she's so cute. She thinks she's gone, but she's here. So I just popped you down and shared all the things I'm so grateful to have you here and just hear your heart and learn even more from you in this moment as I always do.

So we love you. I love you too. I'm so thankful for this space. And I'm so thankful that. Um, you know, it can be a lonely thing. It can be a lonely place when, especially in the Christian community, there's a lot of different parenting philosophies. Um, and so just knowing that if this is something you're feeling in your soul and in your heart know is right for your family, you are not alone.

We're not alone Tamra. And I sit in this space with you. Um, and there is resources. There, there is help. There is not. Um, there are people to walk alongside you in this journey because there's not really, um, you know, we needed models. Um, so that's what we're here for. And I, I honestly know that like how you're teaching and raising up your children and all of these other parents who have children, it's a generational change opportunity for us to stop what was, because there wasn't access to this understanding and to really step into a shameless parenting adventure for families to be in freedom.

As you raise up these kiddos, like it's so much more fun. I have so much more fun and also so much more. Um, for myself and grace for my kiddos in the process of parenting because of practicing these principles. And so thank you for the wisdom. And I know you're going to continue to provide resources and be a voice to this generation of parents who needs you desperately.

So thank you. Thank you. We love you. Bye y'all follow.

Hey, y'all it's me again. Before you go, let's solidify the flame that was ignited within you today by sharing the spark with your own community, whether it's mentally, physically, emotionally, relationally, or spiritually, I would love for you to take the step right now by declaring your takeaway, snap, a pic of the episode and share it on your stories.

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