• Tamra Andress

Heal From Relational Trauma with Dr. Janie Lacy

Janie and I had so much in common! This conversation went into very deep areas, including toxic relationships, therapy, trauma, and more. How do these things come out in relationships and how can we use it to move us to higher levels?

We talk about all these things - enjoy!

Key Takeaways:

Healing is the new sexy

Everyone has a story

About Dr. Janie:

Dr. Janie Lacy, LMHC, NCC, CSAT-S is a Licensed Relationship Trauma Psychotherapist who has over fifteen years of experience working with those who have unsuccessfully tried to break free from their toxic relationship patterns. By addressing the root issue of their suffering, Janie creates breakthrough experiences from the inside out, allowing her clients to finally find peace within themselves they have so desperately longed for in life. She is a nationally recognized expert in the field of relationship trauma. Janie has been featured on Good Morning America, CNN|HLN, ABC, CBS, FOX, NBC to name a few. She is also a faculty member with the International Institute of Trauma and Addiction Professionals and an entrepreneur who took her counseling business from a solo practice to a group specialty practice. Her accolades and awards include: Orlando Business Journal's 2021 "Women Who Mean Business", Onyx Magazine’s 2020 “Woman on the Move,” Orlando Magazine's 2019 “Women of the Year” and African American Chamber of Commerce of Central Florida 2018 “Enterprise Business of the Year.” Janie is the host of her syndicated VoiceAmerica Show called “Let’s Talk About It with Janie Lacy” which can be found on iHeart, iTunes, Alexa, Spotify, and Spreaker. Janie helps women overcome toxic relationships. She’s the creator of Woman Redeemed, an intensive experiential group experience that uses proven therapy strategies to start women on their healing journey. After experiencing the devastating trauma of her eldest sister leaving a domestic violent relationship resulting in her murder. Janie uses her experience and expertise to help others break patterns of toxic love.

Where to Find Dr. Janie:

Check out the Woman Redeemed Programs - 12 Week Groups, Retreat Weekend, Conference, & Course

Show Notes: Heal From Relational Trauma

Welcome. Welcome. So happy to announce and have my friend Janie Lacey here on the fit and phase podcast. You guys, she is somebody that I get to learn from every single morning on clubhouse with breakfast of champions. And so it's been awesome to bring people in from that family into this family. And I'm, I'm just excited to just have your knowledge and wisdom shared with the community today.

Cause I know how impactful a little bit. Thank you for being. Absolutely. I'm super excited to be here. Just to pause it. Like we're going to have so much deposit today. So whether you're an active listener and you're writing, we were just talking about being an active listener on club house, or you are somebody who's working out right now, regardless.

We're really hopeful that it's just going to teach you something, um, based on your incredible wisdom and expertise and you guys wow. We all have so many talents and gifts. Uh, Dr. Lacey specifically is licensed in relationship trauma and psychotherapy. Um, she's had over 15 years experience in this. She too has her own talk show.

I had the gift of being on recently. Um, let's talk about it with Janie Lacey, which is on a VoiceAmerica show and, uh, yeah, I'm so excited to dive in deeply, not just your area of expertise, but how you got started in all of this. Let's start there. How did you get into this relationship? Understanding and trauma history.

There's a lot to unpack there, but I'll give you some highlights. No. I think when we all have grown up in our own childhood experiences, we don't know until we know that we've had our own trauma through relationships, right. We can be broken in relationships, but the glorious gift of God is that we can also be healed in relationships.

That's I was about 10 years old when our first trial. Hit our family, which birthed a legacy building program that I have now through women redeem. But that first trauma was, you know, in the middle of the night, having, uh, someone banging on our family door and waking us all up. And I looked back, my parents didn't know how to handle this trauma.

They told us that our sister who we later found that was murdered, but they knew the time they had the conversation with us that she was already murdered, but they just told us that our sister was in the hostel. And what I realized by that is they didn't know how they weren't quipped. They didn't, they were shocked.

They didn't know what to do. So, you know, they were buying themselves some time. But when I look back at that, even that was a traumatic experience. Right. Because when you're told that your sister's in the hospital, you're thinking, okay, she's going to be okay. And then later being finally found out that you never going to see her again.

So when I look at that, First traumatic event that happened in my family. And then later on how that was a pivotal, what we would call a touchstone trauma event that would lead to my poor decisions and relationships, my own poor decisions of communication. So we have these things that happen to us relationally, whether it's through our parents, whether it's through romantic relationships, whether it's through friendship, that they.

Put a lot of different messaging about who we are by the reflection of our environments. So when I look at that and I look at how I got to be at this place, I was I'm actually in the MBA program, Tamra. I was going to get my MBA. I said, I didn't know what I wanted to be alive, but I wanted to be a business woman that had a briefcase.

I don't know why on that power suit. Exactly. I mean, I didn't know what I wanted to do, but I know that image came to me because what I experienced in life is from a, I would say a legacy perspective before me, a lot of the women were very codependent that relied just financially and just stayed along broken relationships for the sake of finances.

And, you know, my mom was not married to my dad, but she was with them for 17 years. So when I look at all those things, I had this. Well, I'm not going to depend on anybody. So I want to get my convertible and my briefcase. So I'm working my way through college because the gift my parents gave me was they couldn't afford to send me to college.

And I do say it was a gift because it in printed character, hard work press. I'm going to figure it out. So I was figuring it out and I was working through the university of central Florida, my undergrad, and I worked in the school district. I worked in the university system Tamar because they paid for, to me to take two classes.

Brilliant, brilliant. I like it already a hard work ethic, but in that process, I ended up making a long story short. I ended up working for Dr. Michael Dyken and he's still over the counseling center, the health center at the university. So I looked at him as kind of like a surrogate father figure, even though I had, my dad was still alive with that time, my dad was unemotionally available, you know, in and out of addictions.

So I gravitated towards my boss in a sense of leadership and a sense of justice. Empathetic compassionate spirit. So I'm saying that to say is I put a lot of weight on what Dr. Dichen said. So I was in my MBA program and I got exposed to, um, counseling and I got exposed to a therapist who was partnered with in a program.

I was in called the leadership enhancement program and it was for women and, um, in the university system. So I partnered with her and I got exposed to. Therapy and counseling. And from where I'm from Tamra, you just pray to the Lord. Yeah. You're lucky you had that. You're lucky you had that, you know, that was off limits.

So I got curious because I respected her name is Valesca and I've loved her. So I respected the Lesco and she just had this loving spirit. I didn't yet, at that time, even though she was a Christian, but she, this loving, accepting spirit who was that. So we got paired together. I got exposed, make a long story short.

So I went to Dr. Deakin and I was breathing heavy. My heart was pounding and I said, Dr. Daikin, I think I'm going to drop out of the MBA program and I'm going to enroll in counseling psychology. And then I held my breath because he was kind of like a father figure. He's like Janie. I don't know why I didn't think of that stuff.

less than Del Tamra. We have to be careful who we allow to speak into our life. Good and bad. I look back now in my learnability and in my innocence, who was a really good person, but I allowed him to have so much power over the decision-making in my life. So it turned out to be a great thing. I look back I'm like, this is why we have to be so careful because I made a life decision based off of someone's validation and approval would make a long story short.

I ended up dropping out of the MBA program and here I am so amazing. So when you were first exposed, were you exposed from an educational perspective or also you were receiving therapy at that point or? No? I had not been to therapy. I probably would be ashamed to go to a therapist as in my head. You right when we understand this now, even though it's a lot more de-stigmatized, but the stigma was that there's something wrong with you.

Or for me, you're not Christian enough, you know, whatever the messaging was at that time. So I had yet to go to therapy. Do this program, we would do workshops like how to bloom, where you're planted, how to write your personal mission statement. And then we'd have people at the end of the workshop, come and talk to us.

So I'm in the line, like talking to these people, giving them advice. And I'm like, okay, I like this. I guess I have a voice. And I have something to say. And the reason why that's important, the voice and have something to say is because when I go back to a five-year-old girl, I had rotten teeth. Tamra had rotten teeth and my dad didn't speak good English.

We grew up in a family. You're seeing you're not heard. So I kind of, I say came out of the wound with kind of had my voice. You don't talk crest. Yeah. Suppress, completely having the, the rotten teeth. I didn't even talk even more because I, I used to go like this. So the reason why I entered that leadership program was because I would be publicly speaking and I'm in business class and I would be talking like this, even though I had my full team, I still was acting as if that was.

Well, all good connected. So, um, when I, when I look at that and I saw that, you know, people are listening to me, I have something to say, I have, you know, all this stuff. So I did eventually go to counseling. And it was not because of me entering counseling. It was, uh, because I was having a breakup with a boyfriend, important things, the important things, but this is what that experience taught me.

So I was breaking up with a boyfriend that I was with in college and the therapist minimized my. She was, she thought she was doing a good thing. They'll Tamra. She's like, well, you're so pretty. You're smart. You can move on. But when you are in a place of heartbreak and you're in a place of pain, that's not something.

And I know people do that all the time, but the therapist who I thought was. You know, had some more tools under her belt. Yeah. So I went to her for two sessions and it was the same thing. And I said, this cannot be what therapy's about. So I'm like, I'm getting ready to go to school to be a therapist. And so I took that to realize, dig deeper and to really wanting to find out and learn what people really want.

When they come to therapy that they can't get from their friends and they can't get from, you know, their family or their, their church. So that experience kind of led me to sit in that client chair to realize why would I come to therapy? If she's telling me something that my friends can tell me or that my friends do tell me, but that's not what I need right now.

So further wounded me in that sense, because I'm thinking, well, maybe there is something wrong with me. Why am I feeling this way? When I have that, that, that, that, that dot, you know, so it was not helpful. It was actually a. Yeah. So interesting when you think about that, because I think it does happen more often than not.

Um, even myself, when I first got exposed to therapy, I had this preconceived notion of what it was supposed to be like, and because I was just literally talking and. Quiet, maybe a couple of probe questions. I found myself talking myself into a lie, a lie that I was already living and therefore they were receiving a lie and to their, you know, their side of the story is how are they, as opposed to shovel through that when I'm already bringing them such a mess.

And so they were actually justifying the lie that I had built up as truth because they couldn't decipher. Which right. They weren't even trying to decipher this is true. And so they were telling me the thing I wanted to hear. Um, and that's the opposite of what therapy needs to be. Now. They should reassure the things that are good and they should reassure your, you know, your value.

But at the same time, there should be some more questions and more things asked when I'm coming in broken. Um, and yet I'm putting on a strong front, like, I think that alone, there's something going on. If you're here. There needs to be a reason that you're here. Um, and so it was interesting. I, I hopped therapists for a while before I finally found one that I, they asked the right questions.

And the questions that got down to the root, which I know is your passion for people is to understand what the root is. Um, one word that phrasiology, that you use that really spoke to me was, um, the emotional availability of service. And, um, I'd love to unpack as you're continuing to like, grow and evolve into your therapy.

Um, at that age as the, in the program, how did you become aware of what your own emotional intelligence was? And then that of people that you spoke to. No, a couple of things. First I want to highlight, I think it is important to highlight that, you know, God had a plan for my life and I can clearly see it, the steps that were ordered, because now I'm a therapist.

Who's part of an organization who teaches therapists, how to do therapy. Thank you, Jesus. Oh, I kind of looked at it. I laugh about it and I, and it's funny, but it's also just something that just deeply just warms my heart. But when I look back at that, You know, I think our probably was, um, in my mid twenties at that time, and I was newly married and just trying to figure out my, my life and I was still lost in many ways.

Right. So even though I had these great things that the steps that were happening, you know, in the midst of me going to school and the midst of me trying to figure out my next steps of life, you know, I found out that my. Ex-husband or my husband at the time was struggling with a lot of different addictions.

And it's one thing when you're in school and you're learning about these things. It's another thing now that you're learning your eyes are open and you're realizing that this stuff was right in my home and it was not necessarily even just the stuff that I went through in my marital relationship. It opened my eyes to all the things I had yet to be here.

My father wound, my mother wound, you know, all these other things that I had going on. And I look back now, right. It was painful because it had to make me look at my own survival mechanisms. I was really, I was emotionally cut off and I was at people at a distance because I didn't trust people because I didn't really trust myself.

Right. So how I was maneuvering in the world. You know, even though yes, God led me to this path, that was the greatest decision I made at that point. It was really, he was uncovering who I was and he said, Janie, the lesson that you have to learn is in Florida, in order for me to get you to chapter 15, you have to do your own work girl.

Yes. I love how he does that. And I hate it at the same time laughing about it now, but back then it was painful. Yeah, it really was. I feel the same exact way. So common, it's like the breakdown of self in order for us to. And that's what I believe he does with every single person. It looks very different to every single storyline.

Um, but thinking through all of the wounds, you know, the father wound the mother womb, it's like walking back through that experience with that little Janie, going back to what it felt like to have that side. Yeah. You know, expression to not feel beautiful and have to cover yourself up. It's you having to walk that line and that life again, with this new lens and this new ability to help that little one heal.

Um, how, how have you continued to do that as you've grown? Is it something that you feel like is a continual process or still healing from or healed? And then sir, Absolutely. I first, let me say Tim Ryan and, and you know this, but I think everyone needs to hear this is that healing is a painful journey, right?

When we think about healing and we now know we have taglines healings, new, sexy, and all this other stuff, get to the mountain top. Absolutely. Kurt, that healing is the new sexy. That's awesome. I'm going to have to change the title of this healing is not the new sexy. It feels like it. Right. But you know, when we get to the mountaintop, absolutely.

Right. Um, but what happens is when you now see things and you now learn things and you become conscious and aware, you can never unsee and not learn. Right. It's like tearing yourself open here I am. And you know, walking through that valley and just not knowing you see the mountain, you're like, okay, God, I know you're leading me somewhere.

But in that process, it's very painful. So one of the things that I continuously do, and I believe that I am called to do this Tamra is that I have my own accountability, my own mentorship, and a big part of that is because a lot of people give me the privilege. You see, I'm here in my office. And you know, I'm looking at this couch when people are here on this couch, they give me the privilege and the honor, not only to hear their story, but to walk with them through their most painful.

And as I talk about, you know, who you allow to see you and to speak into you, I know it's a privilege and an honor, so I take the privilege and the honor to the highest order that I possibly can. And that means that Janie has to be her healthiest self. And that also means that when I'm not my healthiest self, that I may not be in a position to see clients for that day or for that week, if I'm going through, you know, if I've lost someone in my own family, No a lot of times we learned the art of compartmentalization, but I feel like that's one of our most vulnerable, so we have to be honest with their self.

So I have countability, I go to my own therapist, I have my own, um, I would call them a life coach and then I have accountability around business. So I'm doing a lot of stuff just around business. Cause I believe, you know, I have a. A brick and mortar business, and I have payroll. So I'm responsible for other people.

So to have someone in the business that can also look and making sure that I'm being a good Stewart, that I'm taking care of the business of things. So I have accountability through and through, and that helps me and even, even in my friendships, so my closest friendships, they know me 360 degrees. And what I mean by that is they can say, you know, whatever may be going on with me.

Well, Janie, that's your thing. You know, as you mentioned earlier, Jamie, that's your little girl that we need to think about this, right? Whatever, whatever the situation may be. So people who can speak truth to me and I can hear it. I may be like, oh, in the moment. But when you know, someone loves you, you allow them to speak life into you because you know that they can see things that you may not be able to see in the moment and God positioned them in your life for a reason.

So accountability is high. Mentorship is high, who you allow to be in your inner circle is extremely important. And taking care of myself, right? So I believe in giving myself an abundance life. So I w I'm here, I have the capacity to sit in someone's dark moment with them because I may be the only person.

And I look back, you know, Tamar it's been unfortunate, but I've lost some people along the way, in the sense of a therapeutic relationship. And, you know, there's a, there's a case one in particular, many years ago where the daughter of the person who I was working with wanted to come in and sit with me to learn who her father.

Because I was the last person who was really intimate with him in that way. And he allowed me to, I mean, to tear back the layers and I looked back in my career, I had to think to myself, you know what, this is why I do the things that I do. And this is the moment or the light that God shines upon my feet so that I can shine that upon other people.

Because when I look at the situation with that individual, he had never been to therapy. He was in his sixties and, you know, I, I can say clearly he was a racist. He had not been to had a lot of exposure, had really strong, strong, strong opinion. But here he is with me,

position him where he needed to be. Exactly. So, you know, I look at me being able to set him free. Right. I have my own beliefs around why he was taken out of this earth, but to allow me to set him free and to be there, and his moments of unpacking 62 years of Heartland. Right. And, and then to have his daughter who had an adverse relationship with him because of some of his hard views to sit with me and to have compassion for her dad through my eyes was probably the most difficult thing I've ever done Tamra, but it was the most powerful thing because I had a lot of anxiety.

I'm, I'm seeking my own therapy mentorship. And I said to myself, this, let me give this gift to her. I've extended. Really? I didn't have to do that. I didn't have to sit, you know, with my deceased clients. Don't. And, uh, but I look at that, that life giving mode. So create a different legacy that she had in her dad's mind than the one that she was leaving with the last interaction with him.

So there's many, many stories like that, and those are the stories that keep me going, but we also have to be in a place where we are, we have to be full, right. I have to have a high tolerance, a high tolerance to hear things. So other things that I do, I'm constantly renewing my mind because if not that some stuff can rent space in your head.

Right. You're getting it. I think that's always one of the hardest and most interesting things. And I found myself even through business coaching because it's, I feel like I feel like any sort of coach, it doesn't matter therapy. It doesn't matter if you're a hairstylist, right? I mean, the amount of things that those girls and women or men hear on a consistent basis blows my mind because I'll be in the chair and I'll say something to them.

So, sorry that I just shared that with you. And they're like, oh no, you should hear what I hear. It's the knowing that there is an emotional weight that is handed to you when somebody else is passing that weight from themselves, they're saying here, I trust you enough to carry this. And maybe they don't trust you this, and you need to let it go.

You're now carrying it. And if you don't have that sense of wellbeing, it's very hard for, it was for me to lay it down. And so it would be in coaching sessions and we would be weeping together. And then I'm supposed to teach them some strategy, right. They're supposed to be cool that they can leave with.

And I'm like, I think God just planned for this today. I think this is enough for both of us. And then understanding that in order for me to sleep, I have to be able to let that go and know again that God's in control of that situation. So I'm curious, like in your, your wellbeing and your continual health of mind, body, soul, what are some like strategies that you use that really help to bolster that and keep you going.

Well, there are a lot of strategies. The first a clubhouse interrupted this a little bit, but right. Morning routine. And so, you know, early and having this quiet time where I can read, I can do my devotional and I do affirmations. I write affirmations to myself and I write affirmations a little bit differently.

So when I'm writing affirmations, I'm not writing, you know, I am faithful. I'm writing you are. So I speak it over my life and I write these down every morning and then I stretch my body. So I'll do some yoga. I do a YouTube videos. I have some saved in my YouTube channel, so I moved my Madi. So all of that stuff, because I don't know what the day's going to hold for me.

So a part of that is getting, uh, having a sleep routine, having a morning routine. I'm constantly reading I'm in the word. I listen to spiritual music. I surround myself with uplifting, positive people. If I'm scrolling on my Instagram and there's something that doesn't make me feel good, you're either muted or unfriended.

Right. So protect myself. And I say, I'm a Savage for my renewing of my mind, because this is the greatest gift that God has given me. And if I'm not thinking clearly, if I'm preoccupied with my own worries, I can't be. With whoever is in front of me and that moment. So I take it very serious and I take it very serious Tamra because I did have a burnout moment.

So about 10 years ago, I was just burned out and I thought it was sick. I went to the doctor, they found nothing with me. And the doctor had looked at me. This was a new relationship with the doctor. Didn't even know me. He's just someone I found on my insurance plan. And he's like, I think you just need some.

I don't like Russ I'm burnt candles at both ends. Right? So the hustle mentality, right. So good. I have to get stuff done, blah, blah, blah. And I realized that he was right. That, yes, I burn candles at both ends. But when I'm sitting with clients or I'm doing running business, I'm doing other stuff. My mind is doing gymnastics.

I can't truly be present to really be present and I'm not doing anything. Well, I'm doing many things. Good enough, but I'm not doing them well. And I realized that's not what I was called to do. I wasn't called to do things, many things just good enough. I was called do a few things very well. And I have to say, you know, I do some things very well, no question.

That is so incredible. I think a lot of people are even learning that there's a space to do that. And sometimes you feel really like pigeonholed into being these as many things because of the way that society segments us. You have to be a good mom. You have to be a good wife. You have to be a good business woman.

You have to be a good, you have to be like all of these titles. And when you stand individually in each of those areas, It feels really cumbersome. Like you feel exhausted in trying to do the one thing when you have all of these things that you're supposed to try and live up to. And it's not necessarily even the expectations of others because I'm just as guilty as, oh, I missed the boat.

I missed the mark on this one today. Right. And so what I was able to do that I think is really critical for people is to realize that you're not a segmentation of self based on the hour of the day. Jeff when you're, you're doing meditation and yoga in the morning and those affirmations, you're the same Janie.

Then as you are right now, as you are, when you're on the seat, listening to your therapist, client, as you are, when you're on clubhouse, there's no difference in being and therefore your day can be really full and you can check all the marks and you can wear all the hats and yeah. I feel so in much more of a freedom rather than the isolation of one thing.

Um, and so I've found that the more that I allow myself to exist as my whole being, even though that feels like it via a lot harder, it's actually so much more free. Absolutely. Absolutely. And talk to me. No. I was going to say, when you can live in a way that you're living consciously and you can embrace the moments you stop future living, right?

We're constantly waiting for the future. Things are going to get better or things are, you know, I'm going to make more money here. I can be present. My son is nine. He's only going to be nine. Yes, my son just turned eight. So that resonates with me so much. And I think it's so critical, like in that experience alone, that that might not look the same today as being a mom, as it did Friday when it was my son's birthday and there was no social media and there was no clubhouse and it was a device free day.

Pictures to be able to be present, but today, like I'm not going to be with him almost all day. And that doesn't make me less of a mom does like it doesn't make you less of a therapist. If you don't see clients today, you're still a therapist you're still able to give and serve. And so finding those healthy zones like you're talking about, and those times within your day, where that health is the priority of self in order to serve, I think it's so important.

I love the way that you put that. So I'm curious, cause I know you have lots of different outlets of yourself, like your show, um, like philanthropy and the time that you invest into others, even on just clubhouse, how do you see like what's the overall mission of Jannie, Lacey and the things that you do?

So right now, my, my major mission. Is really focusing on my woman redeem brand. So, you know, I've been working. So I had the honor of, um, interviewing Sharon Lechter and that was purposeful just really in life. Um, positioning myself for my future. As far as life counseling solutions. And really being able to focus on what, what makes my heartbeat.

And there are so many women as we are speaking right now, and it doesn't make a difference if they're CEO, if they're celebrity, if they are famous or they're just getting from block that there. Sorry, I love that you use that analogy right there. So many women that, um, are hiding right now, you know, they can't be who they are.

They're in a relationship that is. Um, who they're meant to be with, or their invested violent relationships. They know a secret that their husband or a partner has, and that it's killing them inside. So as women that come through the program, they carry, have carried so much and have hid for so long. And I think the other part of that is generally speaking.

A lot of women that will come through the program have had other negative experiences with other ones. Right. So they had a wall that they go to a friend and says, you know, let's say I'm just using it as an example that their husband is famous or, you know, plays for a certain team and they're going to their friend and there.

Hey, you let you have a life. You have a life look at everything that that person provides. Right. And then they start gaslighting them. The guests like themselves, meaning they deny their own reality. Well, maybe, well, maybe they're right. Maybe I should just look the other way. And maybe I should just be grateful for all the things that are around me, but I have no peace in my soul.

Right. And there's so many people. That are hurting right now. And I have yet to meet them. And I feel like when I meet them, you know, it's because they've gotten to a place where someone's either encouraged them. They've got their own encouragement or, you know, what they finally felt seeing her, not just.

And I think when we get to that place, I feel like I have to be at a better place where I can be present. Right. So, you know, not only my, my, we do the 12 week program, which you have right here. Right now. We have a 12 week program. We have a retreat that we do every year and reunion resorts. We rent out a nice, beautiful home.

We stay there together. You know, I'm planning the first conference. So I'm just trying to green a lot of resources to create an awareness. And when that redemption is no matter where someone has been, no matter what they've gone through their future, it can be so much brighter. And all of that stuff does not define who they are.

And a lot of times when we have so much shame, it keeps us hiding and it keeps us not speaking our truth. You can show up to work as the CEO and you can be, or your child's school of whatever your life may be, but you're dying inside slowly. And I don't want, I want as many women as possible to break free from that and experience the love of the self experience, the love of the other and experience the love of Jesus.

That's incredible. Was there like a turning point of when you first got invested into therapy to this now mission, was there ever a change or a shift in that? Um, that mission, there were several, you know, there's two women in particular. One in our field as interns who just get graduate, they tell you never to see trauma on ever to see personality disorders.

So here I was working at the center and one of my first clients is going to be general because, um, she still follows me in this is many years later, over 18 years. But, you know, had went through a very devastating sexual trauma. And with working with this client for one, I didn't know what to do with her.

I was an intern. Right. But I was in a place where I had a lot, lot of love in my heart. And I said, okay, well, I know I'm not supposed to be seeing this type of client for my internship, but I'm just going to show up with her. Cause it was like two days after this assault that the families ushering. Her, um, into the office and she was given to me, but I realized again, everything happened for a reason.

So following this person's story, I could not understand how, um, at that time, when women have gotten sexually assaulted, then go into certain industries or then start, um, Start assaulting themselves is what I would say. And that, that just kind of put me into this place of, I want to find out about this because in order for me to really help the, with this particular, um, female, I wanted to understand that.

And when I kind of dove into the work, it kind of led me to certain experts in my field, which one of them, I work now for their organization. Patrick. Awesome. It's completely a God thing. And then the other case that I had was someone who I was helping with, what we call a safety plan, leaving a violent relationship and, um, make a long story short.

She didn't come to her next appointment. And when we called her, she was stabbed multiple times that she was carrying that person's child. And from a therapeutic standpoint, right. We have all these things where it probably was a little, it would probably be considered unethical for me to have visit her in the hospital.

But I did. So, you know, I felt like that was the right thing to do. And when I saw her, when, what happened. This was not the right thing, but I kind of took some blame for that. I kind of feel like maybe it could have done something different. Maybe I should have, you know, maybe, maybe, maybe I know it was not for me to do that, but in the moment, that's what I felt.

So when I look at those two situations, when it comes to my work with women, they, those were pivotal moments. Um, for me, not only learning, but me realizing that my sister's story was starting to come alive again, but we were taught just the way that dysfunctional coping. We don't talk about the trauma in our family.

We don't discuss it. And Janie, why are you discussing this? Why are you discussing all these things? Right. And I understand the limited mindset, the unhealed mindset, but for that was a time where I locked all of the stuff that I still had in meet to process. Um, even as a new therapist that w I, gosh, I'm thinking of putting myself in that hostel.

I'm thinking of the emotions that you are feeling, and yet knowing that it's not necessarily the right emotions, that, that toss between identity and humans, right. Identity as title, and then human emotions, um, knowing that Jesus himself wet. Right? And so those emotions that you were feeling are raw and real and create further empathy for you.

Um, and I think the thing that really like, kind of almost triggered me is, is that familial perspective of, are we talking about this. Like, why are you doing like, you're literally casting blame on, um, society or family or any of these things? Yeah. My thought pattern to sharing and uncovering for other people to understand that bad things happen to good people and good things happen to bad people.

And that that's not necessarily the ultimate plan, but sometimes how the cookie crumbles, but we'll still be used for. Good. Is that. We, we get to raise our hand in the midst of all of that and showing spotlight to a problem or mental health or how, what that route is right. That we said that word at the beginning, it's also my taking full responsibility of the actions and the choices that were a part of that.

Um, and allowing people to see vulnerably, the imperfections that exist in humanity, um, and also realizing. There are some crazy situations that transpire some transformations and transportations that happen for people that you can't quite. You can't quite figure out why. Right. You're like, Jesus, where were you?

And it's okay to question him because he's, he's okay with that. But he also is really wanting to showcase to you where he exists in the mist. If you're willing to take yourself back to those situations. Um, so I, my curiosity, when you're encouraging people past their healing right there, they're now in the, maybe the mountaintop or feeling like they're on the peak because you don't generally share case in broadcast all of this information when you're still on the mend is, um, what, what energy or access or.

Resource would you provide people to allow them to know that it's okay. And there's like trusted here ears to hear things like that. I think if someone's listening to us and they may resonate with something that we, that we say that we're saying, I mean, there's several different organizations, resources.

Yeah. You know, I think the most important thing is I would always recommend, and I understand that I'm biased is to start in a professional relationship. And this is why, because it potentially can minimize pain of talking to the wrong person, because I am abided by the state of Florida in particular that if I was to have Tamar was my client and I was to talk about her business, she could Sue me and my license will be gone.

Bye-bye too much for licensed. So, you know, so. I understand that there's, that bias there. But for me, when I realized that even in my own therapeutic journey, I'm like, what did I not do this sooner? Oh, really? I felt that way for sure. And I think that's what people are just fear more fearful of the stigma.

Like you said, even circa when it came into you doing it. I don't think it's any different today. Honestly. I think that there's still a stigma to it. Oh, you need therapy. Um, and it it's becoming more normalized. Thank goodness for that. Um, but even in that, normally normalizing now it feels like people are sharing when they're not necessarily in that healed perspective or in that full ability to share.

Is there wisdom you can give to like when's the right time? And I have people often that come to me, they want to start their business, or they want to start their coaching or they want to start such and such. And I can still sense that it's, it's still very hard if they're still alive. Tumultuous things going on.

I think the stigma around therapy is that most people come when there is a problem. And part of that is true, but I recommend is that we all need a mental wellness checkup is what I call it just as I go to the doctor every year to get blood work, to get my heart listened, to get my. Check. Well, all of those things, there's something wrong with me, but I'm going, and I'm getting my yearly checkup.

And I believe that we all need that mentally. We don't necessarily have to have anything wrong and to have that space, to just to process life, to process our goals, to process anything that may come up, but doesn't necessarily have to be completely painful. And we have to be in this place of, um, Feeling like the world's going to end.

It can be, you know what? I, haven't gone to therapy in a while. Let me just go ahead and make an appointment with my therapist or let me find a therapist who, because it is another part of therapy, it's relational, it's a relational situation. Right? So when I look at my, my example, I shared earlier my first experience with a therapist.

She was just not the good fit for me. There's nothing wrong with her, but I needed someone who, and I understand that cause I have it now is I have someone who's not afraid to maneuver me talk truth to me, help me with my blind spots, but yet also be gentle and loving with me. Give me homework. I'm a, give me something to work on.

I'm so the same way. That's awesome. Yeah. And like what, what's the activation from this? What do I need to take home? This is good. And, and same too with the therapist that I. Like literally, it's nothing on them. They've actually helped transform a lot of my friends lives, which is how I got connected to her.

Um, it's just knowing that the first person might not be the right person. So I think that there is an okay experience to shop a therapist. I don't know how that actually, if that's the right language you could use, but I felt that twins. Oh, they hit on something that I had yet to uncover. And it was in that, that I began to trust based on the pain that was actually being pulled out.

Um, and, and the hard parts, like you said, it's, it's a messy process when you're healing. And so, um, I, I value what you do. So much and the need of that. And specifically in the women redeemed piece, there are people on listening now that recognize that women are hiding. They don't know how to be themselves.

And they're stuck in painful situations specifically in the relationship side of things. I'm curious what your insight or even personal experience, um, with relationships and toxicity and how to be a strong woman without having to wear them. If that makes sense, because it's certain situations that could be toxic, but, you know, I think when it comes to toxic relationships, especially as we speak to her heart of women is we don't realize we're in a toxic relationship because we have yet to deal and heal with stuff that we have not yet become conscious of.

Right. So, you know, I always give this example of when I was in my own therapy, I realized. You know, for me, I hadn't necessarily had a lot of, um, direct memories of direct trauma. I gave the, the trauma of my sister, but I'm talking about from an emotional standpoint, but I do remember this, that each morning I would get up and I would say to myself, well, today, Janie, you're going to be.

I'm seeing it says it's 8, 7, 8 year old girls. I'd wake up and say today, I'm going to be perfect. So what I unpacked in that was I thought I had to be perfect so that I could perform an audition to get my father's attention and my mom. So if I was good, if I got the good grades and I was a middle child, so you put that in the mix middle child.

You know, I tried to just get love because ultimately that eight year old girl felt unlovable, but I didn't know that I didn't know that until I had enough of my own toxic relationships to say, okay, what's the common denominator here, regardless of the guy. It's you, you're trying to get people to love you, who can't love you because you are attracting who your first love was, which was your father, who was an addict who was emotionally unavailable to you, who didn't know how to speak life into his little girl who didn't know how to love.

You know his own stuff, but do that process. That was a huge reveal for me because it was more of what I didn't get versus the stuff that happened to me. It was a slow cut along the way. It was the current belied by the tree that made the tree toxic. Right. So when we now insert into relationships, you know, I'll use myself as an example.

When I entered into my marriage, my, my ex-husband and I are great co-parents and this is a laughable moment that we laugh about it now, but we got married. We wrote our own. And I remember saying, you know what, I was going to be the umbrella to your storm. He didn't realize that I was going to be the store

toxic reaction to what his toxic city was to the relationship was I didn't have a voice as a middle child. I stuffed my feelings. So when Janie needed to be sad, she got mad. All right. So when I would get mad and you would hear my voice. And that was my own toxicity. So, but what happens when people are in toxic relationships?

We normalize toxic behaviors. I was being abusive to them. I have no right to raise my voice. I have no matter how upset I am, there's better choices. But at that moment, you only can work with the tools that are in your shed. That was the only tool in my shed. Right. So I'm seeing that so that no one has shame, right.

Because I can look back and I laugh about myself. I'm like, oh man, I was the Godzilla. But a part of that was I saw in my family, I didn't see fighting and arguing, but I saw. So, what I did was I overcompensated, I'm going to be that alpha female. You're going to hear that was even toxic. So the reason why we can't see our own toxic ways is because we have yet to heal from them or we're with a partner who also enables our toxic behavior.

The best thing that my ex-husband did at one point was said, well, if you keep talking to me that way, you're going to talk to the wall.

No, the most important thing was the next time I started talking that way, me talking to the wall was probably a good thing. Right. We treat people how to treat us and we're, we're in a toxic relationship and we're so wanting that person's validation. We're so wanting that love that we didn't get as a little girl, but we don't know that that's where we're doing, uh, tolerate and accommodate bad, bad behavior.

And then all we do is we just put it down and we'll think, well, maybe we, I get this all the time Tamra. Well maybe if I just bring them to Janie's house. She can fix them and he has all these great qualities, but only this one area, Janey only this one area. Right. So then we compartmentalize, we are holistic beings.

Yes. So I am, you know, the 10% that if you catch me on a bad day, the little girl can still come out and try to get, have her voice be heard. Yeah, it is. You're right though. You're it goes right back to what I was saying earlier about the segmentation. No, that's your whole being, and it's just like a pie.

You remove a piece of the pie. The pie is no longer whole. So in them coming to you, Hey, remove this piece to who that person is an identity. No, like as essentially a part of why God made us in real life. To him, right. It says in our weaknesses, he is strong. And so it's where we need to rely on God, more to sharpen us, to make us better versions of self.

But a lot of times, and this is something my husband and I say to one another is there is submission and victory, right? Submission is victory. And so understanding that in the surrender of the weak parts of ourselves, we allow the other person to come in and support. Um, but then also know that there's.

to one or the other, you cannot, like, you probably were doing, trying to fix this man to fit into the mold of what you expected and yet they were broken, you were broken. And so there was no like co-mingling or co-laboring, it was actually existing. As separate entities and then just butting heads to two Rams up against one another.

So I love that example. I think it's so critical for people to understand, um, because for me too, it's like that suppression of self, that suppression of everything that happens to the point where even your subconscious doesn't really recognize it. That was the uncovering that I had to have. And now I'm constantly looking with empathetic eyes as to what could that be?

Like? I don't know, but I am not trained to help you go see Janie is like, I don't know. So, but I feel like when you're even in clubhouse and you're listening to people sharing, or you're meeting new people now, thankfully with conventions and your retreats and stuff like that. How in such a short period of time, like a retreat or even in an hour or a week or a year, however long you have with people, how, how do you access that more readily?

Is it different based on person, person to person? Well, let's be honest here. There's not going to be change that happens in an hour, but there could be planted. There can be a challenge of a thought process. There can be things that you're left with that you're now going to marinate and think on. Right?

So I look at the, you know, especially the hour of a therapy, traditional therapy session as the gas station, it's really, what are you going to do with the tools that you're learning in the therapeutic process between the sessions? With the retreat. I mean, that's like 20 hours of therapy in a weekend and you get to have soul sisters with you, right?

So I'm a big believer. And I'm saying this as a therapist, I'm a big believer in the power of group work, which is why I believe in women redeemed when other women can learn to have healthy relationships, they hold space with each other. You know, like for example, one of the beautiful, beautiful examples that we have in our woman redeem program is called the empty chair exercise for those that are.

It's called the scope stop therapy. But what we'll do is we'll write from a wounded from the book. Let's say Jamie's writing from her eight year old self, and I'm writing to my mom from that eight year old self. And what we do in Loma redeem is we put the image that I have from eight. So if I have a younger picture of her mom, we projected onto the screen and we put that chair where I'm sitting in the chair in front of the screen and all the women are sitting behind me.

So all I see is my mom's image. I'm reading that letter to her and I'm talking to her what it was like. What I needed from her. And I didn't get mom when I came home and I was upset that my friend called me a name I just needed for you to tell me not to get over it. I needed you to hug me. Right. So we're talking from that little girl standpoint and we give them some time to have that process.

And then the empty chair that's sitting in front of them, all the soul sisters come around and sit in that chair and they speak a life to her. What a healthy mom would do that at eight year old. Yeah. And it is emotional. Now I have full body chills. Just thinking about it. But the most powerful thing in that is you see her little girl kind of thing.

And when her little girl was coming up, that's when the, we can empower the little girl so that she knows that the adult JD has it. I've got this, I got this little Janie, right. Because we all have a little Janie inside of us, whether we know it or not. Right. So my ex-husband would joke with you and say, you catch her on a wrong day.

She was acting like a child. Well, you know, Donnelley was, yeah. Right. So we have to be able to embrace our truth, the good, the bad, the ugly in order to have to transformation. We can't just have this little part in the back of our closet and say, well, I'm not going to tell anybody I struggled with this, but yet I can talk about these things.

We got to give it all. In order to have true transformation and you know what, tomorrow that's the most powerful thing. And I felt like, especially that women were good, they were like, oh, you're so free about all your stories. Well, I'd rather tell you because they don't ever have to worry about you finding out from anybody else because you're so right.

I'm going to use that one from now on. And I love that so much. So my curiosity, because as I am a releasing a book later this year, So all the stories. And so have you written yours in, in sealing those stories of Janie and everything that happened with your sister? Do you have a book? 2022. So I have coauthored books, but just my book.

Um, yeah, I can't wait to read it. I feel like that that has been a process. That's been an evolution just to write it was therapy just to let it go. Um, and to, to work through it again, in my own language versus the language that my therapist was giving me, or I was reciting based on therapy. Um, and I remember writing that last chapter a few months ago.

Closing the book and every other writing retreat prior to that had just been like tears and weeping. And that one was like, not a shed, a tear. I felt like in such peace and such gratitude. And I remember closing it and God literally like sending the word. Yeah. Time. And so it's just, I literally, before I got on here, got their response from the editor saying, it's complete, you can start reading front to back.

And so it's scary though. Like, there's that feeling of emotion of I've shared all the stories via podcasts via like times with you and other people's summits and all that, the bits and pieces, but like to see it all in one place. Oh, gosh. And you know this Tamra because when I, so I have pieces out there that I've done television, where I spoke about my sister's story.

And this is the, um, that you know, about as well is I had a lot of opposition for, at least for me. I had a lot of opposites for my family and not from a place of this from a place of pain. Right. Cause if I'm talking about my experiences in my life, Being able to, and I'm sharing stories to inspire others, not to hurt my family.

Of course, a lot of, a lot of my family it's like bringing up their unhealed pain. Right. So we also have to be aware where we stand in truth and we speak truth. We're also going to, um, attract opposition. But when you look for truth and you know, it's yours, you know, that's for me, you know, that it's. For someone is going to change as a result of it, greater the opposition.

So when we speak our truth, we also

thank God for the lion and the lamb. Right. But thank God for the lion. I'm going to have to be relying on him a lot for that, for those exact same reasons. But I think like you said, and when we discussed the very beginning, it's the knowing that there are people who are in. And I, I don't share it to glamorize myself.

Um, in fact, it was such a hard time of like releasing shame after shame, after shame, which I feel like is totally, totally just an enemy tactic to keep us silent, which it goes back to your story. And now in that voice, you've created momentum and you've unlocked other people and you're going to continue to do that and to do so through conferences and globally.

Right. And to know that it's not just for the world. It's for the mini. Um, so I'm so grateful to you for sharing your story and living the legacy of your sister as well, allowing her versus there'll be, you know, just seen and known even in her pain.

I'm grateful for you. I'd love for everybody to get in touch. They're going to get your book when it comes out, for sure. But in the meantime, where can they find you on a consistent basis? Where can they touch base with you? How can they get on going to your retreat? All of those. Sure. Absolutely. So it's Janie,, Jenny Lacey, social media, and a woman is where they can find information about our tree.

But if they go to Jane, they can find all that. We're happy to be in touch. Yeah. It's been such a gift and they can get into your 12 week program there too. Yeah. So we're actually running one now. So my next one will be at the beginning of August. Amazing. Well, you guys definitely get in touch with Janie and if you want her more consistently hanging out with us on breakfast at the champions Monday through Saturday and Sunday for one 11 church, we love you guys.

Thank you so much for tuning in all those who have been live with us. We've seen your comments. We appreciate you Janie. You're a gift. Thank you for everything that you're doing and for saying yes to the call and you are a gift as well. Thank you for having me. That's your thing.

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