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  • Tamra Andress

Accelerate Your Life with Michael Cirillo


I got to know Michael Cirillo on Clubhouse first and then in the Humble Alpha book club. One word I would use to describe him is peaceful and it is something you will definitely notice in the way he speaks and shares with us. If you want to accelerate your life, you definitely want to keep an eye and ear out for Michael. Enjoy and be blessed!

Key Takeaways:

We can all point people to greatness

The value of a team

Michael’s journey through depression

About Michael:

Michael Cirillo is on a mission to help business owners achieve accelerated growth. As a speaker and best-selling author, Michael is known for his ability to engage and excite audiences, and fill them with the hope needed to take the next step into their greatness. He speaks from personal experience bootstrapping and scaling a successful marketing technology company. Today he's exploring what it takes to live a happy and fulfilled life!

Where to Find Michael:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelcirillo

https://www.instagram.com/michaelcirillo

Clubhouse: @michaelcirillo


Show Notes: Accelerate Your Life

Tamra

I can not with that music. Like you need this when you walk into a room. So good. Oh my gosh, I give the kudos to Morgan who also just gave me her leftover lunch just a minute ago because I forgot to eat. But that is what happens when you live a life of vibrancy and Michael you do that and you example it so well, you inspire me all the time, the way you show up for life in just being really present.


Tamra

And I think that's something that is hard to learn. It's hard to cultivate. So I'm excited to unpack how you've done that in your own life in such a grandiose way, not only as a speaker, not only as a best selling author, not only as a bootstrap successful entrepreneur, but as just a friend. You do it really well. And I've been honored to get to know you not only through Clubhouse and Breakfast of Champions, but also through the Humble Alpha Book Club, where I really feel like that's been an awesome connect and something I didn't know would emerge into what it has emerged into.


Tamra

But it's been really beautiful friendship. So thank you for being you.


Michael

Oh, my gosh. Well, you're making me blush. Good. We need to change the lighting in here. I love it, but no, thank you. I mean, that's that's very thoughtful. And boy oh boy. Do we all need a Morgan in our lives or.


Tamra

Yeah, right. I know that is totally Morganti. That's all the color. Everything that you see. It's all momoh.


Michael

That's awesome.


Tamra

They got those in your life, don't you? And that what you do, your marketing?


Michael

Yeah, I mean, you know, it's funny, especially in the dawn of social media where, you know, there's kind of the front individual of the band and they get all the praise and the glory. And I sit here and I'm like, I couldn't do it without my team.


Tamra

Yeah, but for sure I feel that way.


Michael

The whole deal. Yeah.


Tamra

You're so right. You're so, so right. And I think people forget that a lot. And then they're also afraid to step into that because it is a lot to have to even support a team. So it's a lot to delegate, it's a lot to hire, it's a lot to have all of the back and strings that you have to pull in or make that happen on a consistent basis. But without it, there's no way that I could show up doing what I'm doing now.


Tamra

She's been there literally since day one. So all the praise, I think that that just speaks to the direction that I think. And I really hope I pray that most organizations are going in, which is, you know, kind of the old school of. Oh, well, I don't want to show up and make somebody else rich. You know, that was kind of the old school. It was like, well, why am I here?


Tamra

I think organizations today. Are are at an advantage if they realize that that team isn't just a warm and fuzzy thing that you say to feel good about yourself and feel good about where you work, but that you actually realize people have strengths and they're coming from different vantage points with varying levels of wisdom. So we're all here playing a part. And if we do it right, everybody is at a five together right now, elevated together.


Tamra

So what's so cool about that, too, is like she's an entrepreneur, like she is my team member, but she also is her own entity. Right? She's also her own person. Wow. If you can can you hear that crazy ambulance outside of my office?


Michael

It's like music that was intense. I wish it was prayers to wherever it's going into. I was driving, but it's this knowing that she is her own person and she's supporting me. Sure. But I equally support her. And that's where real team exists. There's not a front runner. You know, I was at this conference this past weekend and this girl comes up to me and she's like, I'm so grateful to you. I couldn't believe all week.


Michael

And I was just watching you. And I've never had a conference like speaker actually sit with us. They always, like, stay in the back. And then they come up and then they leave maybe after they get selfies with people or they sign the thing. And I want to get into how you're a best selling author to because I am in the process of trying to learn how to do that. But it she she was so shocked and like, first off, I'm just as cold as you are, just as qualified and gifted as you.


Michael

And I got my pants on the same way I Potti and the same potty you go to the bathroom in. And I think people forget that because they see the paparazzi or they see the glamor or the glitz or the follower count and the no different on clubhouse. So I'm not worthy of being on stage because those people have a lot, are you not? Yeah, you actually are. You have a voice and it matters. And I think you make way and every example that I've ever seen, any situation I've seen you and you make way for other people, which is amazing.


Michael

Oh, well, that's kind. You know, I think it comes down to the fact that we are all equal. We are all brothers and sisters. And, you know, I think that stems from the fact that I just believe we're all children of the same Heavenly Father. And and so who am I to judge another when I walk in perfectly? You know, I and also to your point, I love that, you know, sitting down with the crowd, I love when when I going off for talks, I'm usually sitting in the front row.


Michael

And that stems from a lesson I learned years ago from somebody that I just looked up to so much, you know, he he said it shows how seriously you are taking this. And it it also demonstrates your willingness to learn. And I mean, in that regard, whether I'm the one on stage or I'm sitting in the audience. The thing that we have in common is that we're all perpetual students, or at least should be.


Tamra

Should be.


Michael

Yeah, yeah. You know, so I love that you bring that up. I think, you know, anything that we can do. And, you know, it's kind of the same boat. Who am I to be, you know, sitting next to you? You're the one that gets to go stand on stage. And I just say, listen, I put my socks on one time just like everybody else. I wake up, I ring a bell, my butler comes and draws and I got out of it.


Michael

Right. It kind of paints a kind of this ridiculous picture.


Tamra

That's amazing.


Michael

We all have something going on. And you mentioned the media to boy of a kind of a media kick where the sooner we all realize that the media exists to shape public opinion, whether it's paparazzi, whether it's following the glamor or the perceived glamor of, you know, the sooner we realize that, that's just there to make us feel a certain way, whether it's inadequate, unworthy, inspired, like whatever. That's why it exists and, you know, I think, you know, and those that are are watching the show or listening, hopefully we're all in a place in life where we realize that.


Michael

That's not what brings fulfillment and happiness. In many senses, we've seen to do the opposite, it kind of destroys relationships, it destroys lives, it destroys so much. You know, that TV network TLC?


Tamra

Yeah, that used to be my initials, PTW before I got married. I used to be my initials. So I really love TLC. I like tender loving care. I was like left, I right. And now I'm a TV show network, so I get it. But I love to play because it's like the history that TLC used to matter, the identity used to proceed me and now my identity with a name doesn't matter. And it's all about being a daughter of the king.


Tamra

So I think that there is a lot to my initials. So thank you for bringing that up. But TLC go on network.


Michael

That's the I used to joke that that's the network where people go to have their lives ruined because they have like the Jon and Kate plus eight. Oh, we left and then they divorced. And then there was the one with the little people, little people, big world. And we love this. We have a farm and now we hate each other. And it's the stress of but it's the stress of having cameras in your face all the time and trying to uphold an image and and not creating space for you to live your preferred experience.


Tamra

Hmm. I love that. So, you know, I love that so much because there is the preferred. Right. There's the you and I who are willing to get on a mike, who are willing to get on a stage or are willing to put our face on the front of a book. And then there are the people who make that happen and that we couldn't do it without them and that they're OK not being in the limelight. So I.


Tamra

Have you ever done the wealth dynamics test, the personality test?


Michael

No, it is.


Tamra

It is. It is. Yeah. And it teaches you what your best way to create wealth is and what that looks like and what team members you need to support you in order to create that wealth. And so there that people who are like the Lords and the mechanics and they're like the back end, like tech gurus, there's the schedulers there, the email, the financial people, there are the creators who make all the things like Morgan does like you or have your agency doing.


Tamra

There are the stars, which are likely what you are, I would guess. And it's not like Enneagram. So I'm allowed to guess and not be wrong and not feel bad about it when I am. But then and then I'm missing one. But there it's so interesting. I love so many different personality tests, but it's important for us to realize again, back to it all matters. And it's one day, God willing, we have live shows, right.


Tamra

That we can go to and have people come on guests like this all the time. And we've got a whole network for ourselves. And if I ever had that, the importance that I would be giving is having my husband and as a front row. And I got to experience that this week. And it was pretty miraculous to see when the person who's sitting beside you every single day and going to sleep with you every single night and I know you have an amazing wife of your own when you're in tandem, when you are in support of one another, when there's a group and see in a symbiotic experience with one another, the other things come easier.


Tamra

And if you let something like paparazzi or a title precede your relationship, it will destroy it. And, you know, part of my story that I've never even shared and and that matters to me so much because of that. And I won't share here now, but it's this knowing that there is always a back story, even in those TLC glam moments, even in that paparazzi, even when someone's getting their socks put on them or they're putting on their socks.


Tamra

Right. There's always a back story. And that's the story that honestly, ultimately matters. It's what we're called into sharing. It's the testimony that God has shaped us for. And so I'm curious about you. I had that question beginning and I want to circle back to it. How how are you so present? And did you have a little time in your life when you were.


Michael

Yeah, yes, and I think to provide even further context to that, I don't you know, I think I'm always iterating.


Tamra

Yeah, always becoming.


Michael

Always, always becoming. Yeah, I love the word become becoming because that really is, you know, to me how it all, you know, am I present? I don't know. Like, am I always present? I, I don't know. But do I want to be do I have that willingness. Am I here with you right now. Not concerned about anything else. Yes. Is it always that way. Maybe not. So so I don't want people to think that I'm like, you know, have it all figured out or perfect in that regard.


Michael

But how do I get to the point I'm I'm at now? I think it ties into what you were just saying about back story. You know, I'm not one of these individuals and by the way, no shame and no judgment towards any of them that have these grand stories of homelessness or living in a car or, you know, experience. And I don't have anything like that. I grew up in an amazing household. Two loving parents taught us well, both immigrants, European immigrants for first generation, Canadian.


Michael

I'm in Canada, you know, son of an entrepreneur. It's like in our DNA, in our family. But we you know, we were raised to kind of have a fight in us. If you want something, go for it, put in the effort, work hard. So I was raised in a fantastic environment, a very nurturing, loving environment, for whatever reason, in my early 20s fell into a deep, dark, suicidal depression, hated life, hated people hate, turned my back on God, turned my back on everything I knew was providing nourishment to my life, essentially just felt this deep, dark hole and.


Michael

It was also just before this experience that I met my now wife and we started dating, we actually were engaged and I often look back and I think, why did this woman. Ever she could have thrown the ring back at me so many times. How why what what's going on, why did she stick with me now? In hindsight, we look back having overcome that experience together. Married now 13, going on 14 years, we've been together 16, 17 years.


Michael

Looking back on that experience, I have a. Burning testimony that God can make weakness is strong, he can turn weaknesses into strength. Why? Because I really firmly believe, looking back, that because my wife and I had to figure something out before we even got married. It has provided a backbone and a strength to our relationship where, you know, she often says, I love our boring life. Now, it's not that our life is boring, it's stable.


Michael

It's secure. We learned how to, you know, resolve conflict. We learned how to deal with one another. When one of us is really extremely low, we learn to communicate all of these things that I think create a recipe for, you know, who I am today, but also going through that experience. And overcoming. Only the Lord knows why. OK, I don't know why yet, I came out of it with an insatiable desire to lift others.


Michael

It heightened my sensitivity for others almost to the point where, you know, I remember one occasion where I was the keynote speaker at an event in Denmark, they had flown me all the way to Denmark. I thought I was there. It was their annual marketing conference, Tamra. I thought I was I had all the thoughts in my head about how to marketing and relationship selling all this kind of stuff. I walked into that room there, you know, maybe five or six hundred people in the room.


Michael

And immediately I thought somebody there's there's people in here that are depressed that don't know why they're here, that don't know why they showed up, that don't you can just feel it. It's hard to explain, but your sensitivity to that energy. On a dime, I walked on the stage thinking, I don't know what I'm going to talk about, but it ain't marketing.


Tamra

And I just had those experiences are so good that we're having this conversation, so you get it now. You know, I just I just delivered. And honestly, I don't even remember what I talked about, but I know I didn't talk about marketing and my wife, I brought my wife with me. By the way, we have this arrangement where she says, I married an entrepreneur. If you get asked to speak or go travel somewhere cool.


Tamra

I also always I your plus one. So we're in Denmark together. I see her sitting in the back of the room and she's like, oh my gosh, he is not talking about what they hired him to talk about. And so, of course, my heart flutters a little bit as I contemplate what the conversation is going to look like after I get off the stage. The event, the event organizers came up to me and said that was not what we expected.


Tamra

It was even better. We so needed that, we so needed that and so. To your question about being present, I think, you know, I don't know if I'm consciously saying, OK, I have this appointment with Tamra, I'm going to be extremely present. I think it's more about just understanding that someone somewhere, somehow may or may not hear something that we talk about today that will alter the trajectory of their life in a positive way, hopefully a positive way.


Tamra

And for that, I will drop everything every single time.


Tamra

That is incredible and totally why you're a Humble Alpha, by the way. So good. The thing that you said at the very beginning as you were sharing that. And it's so you don't even know the parallel to the story you just shared to my life as of literally yesterday. So this is so cool. God is so good. But is this knowing that you said I don't know if I always and my husband and I always talk about how utilizing the word always and never can be really harmful and we try to teach this to our children.


Tamra

She always takes my toys right now. She always or she have like the most giving little sister. And she'd give you anything, right. That she never help you. She never helps me. Does she? Never. Are you sure. So that's just in children sibling rivalry. But think about your relationship with your spouse, maybe even think about that team member that we talked about earlier. Do they never do the thing that they ask? Do they never show up for you, right, because I'm pretty sure they've done it time and time again or they wouldn't be in your life, or if they are still in your life, they shouldn't be.


Tamra

And then we can talk about boundaries and safe people, but we're not talking about that. So I love that you said that even without knowing that exact commonality in our relationship or knowledge base of it's not always and it's not never, it's somewhere in between and that becoming process, that iteration of our best selves, of our Humble Alpha. Ultimately, as Stephen Coon and Lane Valone would say, we love you guys. Is this knowing that we have a choice and being that version of ourselves or the version of what was or the version that somebody else or the enemy would like us to be?


Tamra

And so I'm loving that you had that experience and I just had that experience when I was in Colorado with the social media show. Ashley Faye, have you connected with them? And they were out to embrace your ambition conference. And it was the first time that I ever brought my husband to one of those things. And it was the first of many because it was amazing to have that experience, to have him there. And everything that I had prepared, God completely wrecked even the vision that I had, that I was like, God, this is what it's going to look like.


Tamra

He's like, no, it's not. It's going to look like this. And I showed up in prayer that morning and the wee hours of the morning, I basically was up for twenty four hours and I just prayed as a God, just let me be a vessel. I don't want to stumble over my words. I don't want to have to look at my screen the entire time and my notes. I don't want to not meet the person that is needing to meet me.


Tamra

I want to be in the same bathroom with them. I want to sit in the same row as them. And it's going to be really present. And so many things transpired and so many things will continue to transpire in your life when you say yes and you surrender to what your plan looks like. So what God's plan is. Michael Huie says that do you want to live in his permissable will or do you want to live in his perfect will?


Tamra

And I want to live in his perfect will, and I don't always get it right. That's the hard part.


Michael

Yeah, you know what's interesting about that? You use the word vessel, right? We know the Bible uses terminology like vessel or instrument being an instrument in the hands of the Lord. Well, I think about that in conjunction with what you just said. You know, I think of of a pilot. I have a nephew who just got his pilot's license. And so we've heard about instrumentation and the purpose. And you think about the parallel. What does it mean to be an instrument in the hands of the Lord?


Michael

You know, if I if I if I create a parallel and by the way, I'm not a pilot, but, boy, did I think I was going to be maverick from Top Gun until I was at least 18.


Tamra

I dated I actually dated a goose. That's what everybody called my boyfriend in high school. So that's awesome. Yeah. Goose is just as maverick.


Michael

You think about the purpose of the instruments of an aircraft. They are to provide you with guidance so that you can. Ultimately arrive at your desired destination, and so you rely on those instruments. Now, if we if we create that parallel to us as brothers and sisters, as a human family, as children of God. And the parallel of being instruments in the hand of the Lord, that really gives context into the idea that you and I and all of us.


Michael

Ought to be. A guide. For who people can look at for remission of their sentence. So so think about that. I am not the one that provides remission of sins, but hopefully by knowing me you can see the direction you should be going. You should be looking. Hopefully, we are conduits to the savior. And so in that context. Are we all equal? Yes, because we can all do that for one another, we can all point people to goodness.


Michael

Right, we can all point people in the direction of he who understands us perfectly. Yeah. And and so. Are we going to be perfect at it? No, but boy, oh, boy, am I glad he died for us. That that one catch all that one catch all for when we are not living up to our potential. That's kind of the brilliant thing. You know, when I was when I was depressed. Growing up in a Christian household and and going to church regularly and being, you know, very familiar with churchgoing culture and things of that nature, my depression triggered immense feelings of unworthiness.


Michael

That's how it hit me. You're going to hell, Cerrillo, there is no hope for you, God does not love you any more. That's how I felt. I felt doomed. I remember talking to my dad and I would say that if you ever felt like you're going to I feel like I'm going to hell. There's no hope for me. The most minuscule of mistakes would send me into a downward spiral so deep that I got to I got to a point where I didn't even feel like I was in my life.


Michael

I was experiencing experiencing life through the third person, almost like I'm here. But I don't feel like I'm here. This is I feel like I'm in a dream. This is a nightmare, the opposite of present, like I just called you. So I'll so I'll see you. He uses your weaknesses. Keep going. Keep going.


Michael

So. That's how it that's how what triggered, you know, those feelings of unworthiness, but I think. The brilliance of what you said and what Michael Hewitt says. That I realize now. Is that. If what she is, but let's just say if God is perfect and created a perfect plan. Then that means he also perfectly accounted for our weakness, which is why he provided a savior. Who came to atone? For not just our sins, for our inadequacies, our feelings of unworthiness, doubt, imposter syndrome, can't figure out how to do math.


Michael

I hate math. I'm no good at science. It covers it all because the Bible teaches us that it's an infinite, atoning sacrifice. It covers everything. And so the beauty of that Tamra, what I realized now is that father in heaven. US. At our highest potential, always in the same way, in a very finite sense, I see my children not as just who they are now, but the potential I see so much potential in what they can be and become how they can surpass me and be.


Michael

You know, yesterday we were out in the backyard and my son, Dallin. Was throwing a football, I've never seen the kid throw a football like the dude's got an arm. He was throwing spirals with I can't throw a spiral. It's more like the way as I was, I was I like the Myron like the progeny.


Michael

Yes, I looked at my wife and I said, this kid's going to be a court could could be a quarterback. And she goes, yeah, he got the sports genes from me, which is true. I cerrillo CORE musicians were artists, were entrepreneurs. So my point in saying that is I saw potential. I saw potential. In the same way that I believe Heavenly Father looks at us and doesn't go to your point, he's always screwing up.


Michael

He doesn't he doesn't know he doesn't deal in absolutes, so he says. There's potential there. Let's keep let's keep putting people and circumstances in his or her path. That will continue, look, let's just see where does that potential go? He already knows he sees the end from the beginning, but. When you look back, you go, oh, the reason I had that conversation today, the reason I met that person, the reason I got in that fender bender, the reason that, you know, I got cut off in traffic, I don't believe in coincidence Tamra.


Michael

I believe in divine design. And so in under that context. Under that umbrella. You know, I just think. If we could have faith. That heaven sees the end from the beginning and the beginning from the end, it allows us to navigate this mortal experience in a way that is a little bit more calm, a little bit more strategic, a little bit more gentle, a little bit more tender, especially not just to ourselves showing grace to ourselves, but grace for those that are here, hopefully living their preferred experience as well.


Michael

Hmm.


Tamra

That is incredible. I definitely got emotional if you're not watching this live. He almost got me where I wouldn't be able to understand my words so good and so critical for us because it feels like just in that understanding, just in that vision, that, as you showed me, like the look through your eyes and I witnessed and that moment as you did it, because God speaks to me, I envision him looking down on his children just like you are looking down on your son in that moment.


Tamra

And that potential place feels like the enemy strategy, which is the ultimate enemy strategy in every single situation, including depression, including anxiety, including suicidal thoughts or destruction of marriage or any of those things. It's based in shame. That he sees us. He loves us. He wants what's best for us, and he already planned for the outcome. To be better. To be used as a strategy for us to serve. And show up as the best version of ourselves in line with who he plans for us to be.


Tamra

And so there's no shame in that. Instead, it's actually quite empowering. It's saying, whoa, I have a tool that that person needs and let me get it off my tool belt and dusted off and hand it over to them so they, too, can live in that perfect will. So they, too, can choose today to be more present. That they can unlock this shame placed point of depression. That's unbelievable. I hadn't actually ever thought of it that way, and even though I've spent a long time, half a decade, in fact releasing shame, that's what brought me to tears, is because I've never been set out in that way.


Tamra

So thank you. I want to know, is all of this greatness in your book or is your book about marketing? Tell me my books about marketing. I know my book. My book is about marketing. You know, it's interesting, I. Have felt. The. Desire to write. A more personal book. But also have decided that I would hold off until. I really felt that burning. Desire, you know, like a lot of people talk about how they they feel inspired by the Holy Spirit or whatever.


Tamra

For me, I've learned in my life that it comes when my heart beats so hard. And my ears get warm, like I can't explain it, I'm just like I feel I'm feeling moved upon right now, I'm feeling inspired. And so I know it's it's going to happen. But the space is not yet, and I don't know why maybe there's a circumstance, you know, and I'm not one of these individuals that just pumps out books every three, like there's not going to be a Michael Cirillo Chicken Soup for the Soul series.


Tamra

I don't aspire to that. But there is something there. Now, what's interesting about it is that when I did start writing the marketing book, it was actually going to be about overcoming mental health, not a medical book. Just here's my journey and more like how to show yourself a little more self grace, how to how to be. And then all of a sudden at the last minute, I just felt. No, not yet. Not yet, perhaps.


Tamra

Who knows, perhaps I need more parenting, you know, experience. Perhaps I need more life because I don't know what it is. But I don't want to write a book for the sake of writing a book. The message is in there. It gets clearer by the day. By the way, you put up the the dealer playbook graphic in the beginning. Them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And a lot of people ask me why in the top left does it say CMG with a with a flame.


Tamra

Mm hmm. Well there's there's two things to that. It's Cerrillo Marketing Group. But it's also clear message group Alana and the flame comes from Matthew hiding your light under a bushel. Right, versus setting it on the Hill. I just believe that we can be a beacon of hope. And and we can be a beacon of glad tidings and we can be you know, we can be stewards. If you look up the term stewardship or being a steward has such a different meaning than perhaps just being a leader, not just being a leader, but being a leader or being, you know, like stewardship, really.


Tamra

To me, it's kind of that that visual in the Bible of the hen taking her chicks under her wing, there's a there's kind of this form of protection responsibility. And so that's what that stands for. And so until I feel clear on the message, I want to share. The book is just going to stay somewhere in my head, in my heart, so interestingly, this is so powerful and I think it's it's a message for authors and people in general because I think everybody has a story.


Tamra

And whether it comes out in written format or spoken format are just the way you live your life. In example, as a steward, it's different. But I speak to a lot of authors. I help a lot of authors. I learn from a lot of authors like yourself. And one of the things that I was sharing this morning with my my group, my community is that it took me three years to write my book. And my book is about my story.


Tamra

But it's also a lot of additional pieces of learning for yourself based on that. And I, too, love business. And so I know that I'll have some business books. I'm actually coauthoring one right now. But the the Fit in Faith journey, this idea of what Evan this podcast was originally deposited as that sensation of I have to write this thing. He's calling me right now. I left within seven days of getting that deposit in that download and I wrote one hundred and seventy five pages out the gate and it came like fire like I had didn't even think it just came out of me.


Tamra

And I thought, this is it, I'm going to write a book is going to be published by the end of the year. And we're still three years in you guys. And it's this recognition that I have only gone on five writing retreats. I'm one of those people I can't write a paragraph a day or sit down for an hour and write. I have to be fully immersed because when you write your story, you write your passions and you write everything in between.


Tamra

You have to give your all you've to be fully present. Really, really present. I was a wreck. Every single time I went on one of those retreats, I came back looking more tired than when I left and not really feeling like this is this is good. This is really good. But I don't know what I'm doing. I don't know when this is ever going to be finished. Every chapter felt like it was being dragged out of me.


Tamra

I was weeping. And this last time I went in, I think it was February and it was the first time that I only had two chapters left. I wrote those chapters, and it was the very first time that I read front to back of my book, because you also are probably told that you don't edit as you go. You just get it all out there and then worry about the editing next, because what you do in the raw is generally better than what you critique.


Tamra

Right. And so first time I read it, first time in three years, I didn't weep. I turn that last page of the book, and I heard definitely. I heard now's the time. And I released the book to the editor, and I know as it's in the editing process right now, that if not one person reads it, that's not the goal. The goal is bestseller. Right. But if not, one person reads it.


Tamra

I now get to live from a scar rather than a wound. My. And it was a part of my healing journey. Yeah, and so I encourage people to write and I don't journal on a daily basis, but if you have a story, start writing it down, because one day you're going to turn the page and you're going to realize that's what it was for. And I get to serve from a place of that last chapter every single day.


Tamra

And so I encourage you, I want to see it, I want to read it. People need to know it, but it's got to, like you said, be in God's timing. It might be 30 years from now. It might be three days from now. Yeah. So I hope that that meets you somehow.


Michael

Some does. It does. And you know, what I love about what you just shared is this concept of time. And how it ties back to. Living, choosing and or creating our preferred experience in life. See, I don't get to choose time. I might only be here for three more now. I don't know. And so because none of us get to choose time, but that means that what's left is that we get to choose the preferred experience and side of the time that we have.


Michael

And what I think is so powerful is, you know, it makes me think of one of my favorite. You know. Kind of visuals from the Bible as the the parable of the lost sheep. You know, just this visual of who who among you would not leave the 99 and go off into the wilderness to find the one, and when you find it, you lay it upon your shoulders. And return it to the fold rejoicing. Well, in your experience, I love two things.


Michael

First, we know that your story will have an impact on people, on others. But in so doing, I think oftentimes when we have a desire to serve, we forget about ourselves, that perhaps we are the sheep. That needs. Love. Mm hmm. And and so I feel that way about pretty much any output of mine when I started my podcast seven years ago.


Tamra

You're like a real OG w. That's like O.J. Is that as if you seven years we're podcasting because now like everyone has a podcast, but that's amazing.


Michael

Yeah, well, and by the way. The podcast, The Dealer Playbook, started seven years ago, nobody saw the iterations before that which actually started in 2012.


Tamra

Wow, that's amazing.


Michael

And I'll have to show I want to see the work. That's hilarious. But, you know, I felt like when I launched the Dealer Playbook podcast for my target audience, which is primarily retail auto dealers, I felt like if 100 people listened to this thing, I will be ecstatic. I had no clue what was going to happen to this thing. I didn't know Gary V was going to be Episode 10. I didn't know Dr. Willie Jolley, who at the time had the number one rated Sirius XM motivational show, was going to be Episode five.


Michael

I didn't know Grant Cardone was going to be Episode 15 and Episode 16 because he talked so long, the two episodes. So I didn't know it was going to explode. And even to this day after it has exploded and and and gotten bigger than I could have ever imagined, my mind still reflects. Back to what you said. A lot of it I do for me, actually, selfishly, because I love having the conversations with people who probably on a regular basis, I wouldn't get to go call up and have lunch with you, at least put your socks on next to, you know, the number of lessons in business and life that I've been able to have on a one to one like this has been tremendous.


Michael

But I'm also so. Enriched by the one individual who at some point comes out of the woodwork and says, Michael, this changed my career, I've been listening since day one and we're like seven years into it and they're just reaching out to me. I think about the journey that that individual's on and that they may have been in a place, you know, a lot of people because because I'm open about the mental health stuff and I don't shy away from those topics on on my podcast.


Michael

And so a lot of people have gotten to know me because of that and just. Thanking me for being a voice in that regard, but I think about their journey and how it's taken them seven years to gain up the courage to send me a message on LinkedIn, telling me that it's impact. And I go, isn't that the point right there? Mm hmm. That we are all here together, though we are on different timelines, we coexist at the same time.


Michael

And so if that is true, regardless of the timeline or life cycle that each of us are in, each of us has a responsibility to be a shoulder of support. And perhaps. Both. The what's the term being under Shepherd? Christ is our shepherd, but we can be under shepherds, we can be the ones who are constantly reaching out and perpetuating his message of joy, hope, peace, long suffering and and hopefully help lift one another in that regard.


Michael

You know, people don't realize that just because we're the ones behind the mic or on camera, how much a message from somebody can mean to us, to me. I go, man, they're doing they're doing more of a service to me than I think they realize. And so to me, that's that's just I love thinking about that.


Tamra

You're so right. You're so right. And that's the thing. It goes two ways. It's like it's for the one that one might be you in that moment, but that one also might be that one person that you feel prompted to talk to right now as you're listening to this, to say I should really reach out to that person or if somebody has dropped into your spirit. I've been trying really hard to be present enough to take the pause and reach out to them, even if it's just a text or a voice memo, say, hey, I just saw this thing and it reminded me of you.


Tamra

And I just hope you're having an awesome day. And you know, Glenn, who we got connected through with Breakfast of Champions, he says this is a part of his morning routine, but I don't do it is a part of my morning routine. I do it consistently, not always, but not never. Right. I do it consistently. And it's something that's behind the scenes that people don't see from a forward facing perspective, that they don't see the response that they have or the weeping that they partake in because of that moment being seen or heard or known.


Tamra

But when you do that based on intuition, based on that deposit, there's that massive plan, that strategy that he he knew. Right. God knew that if he drops this person into your spirit and you reciprocated in response, that person's day and life for seven years would be changed. And that togetherness, that cohesiveness is how intimate God is with our lives every single day. We might feel like no one's listening. We might feel like no one showing up, we might get so much ego some days that we think we do put our socks on differently or that the butler is coming to put them on, depending on how high you feel when you get off the stage or how many responses you get in that moment.


Tamra

But there are also moments and days where we're not in the limelight and we forget our worth and we forget our value and depression that we've experienced in the past. Me, too, by the way, creeps in. And yet we serve a God who sees us, and in that moment, he drops our name in somebody else's spirit. And so I encourage whoever is listening and I encourage you to continue to do it. Michael, I know you're so good at it already, but for us, I'll say to keep being present enough to follow the God whisper.


Tamra

Because often just like a sheep. We forget that because they're not really bold, because they're not really loud. That they matter any less or any more than us or them, we're all the same. That's that brotherhood, that's that family. And there's no hierarchical structure here on Earth. And I think when it comes to flip the script real quick, because I got to get this in selfishly when it comes to marketing, weird transition, God is good when it comes to marketing and the same perspective.


Tamra

People see numbers and they see face value and they see really rad intro videos and they'd be little themselves. And they belittle their businesses and they belittle their calls because there's not as much of a following or as much flashy things. But just like you said with the TLC network, what is flashy is not always what is forever. Mm hmm. And so in seasons, you see Flash and then you see it go away. And I don't want to live like that.


Tamra

I don't want to be that to be my story. And so I'm curious, from a marketing perspective, how do you prepare people for sustainability? How do you prepare them to consistently be present and aligned in their message and not let the things like numbers or flash or paparazzi get to their head?


Michael

The first thing, as I say, I ask them, are you a fish? I'm kidding. I don't. But fish follow shiny objects.


Tamra

I totally follow. Sometimes I'm not a fish.


Michael

And the point is I'm not immune to it. And I think our human nature, especially this day and age, I think more than ever we have to deal with this at the velocity at which. Messaging and promises and glamor get thrown at us. I often joke, even though I'm an online marketer, I joke, I kid that the Internet has has a keen way of transforming people to an alternate reality where stupidity is the norm.


Tamra

That's good and true because and and I'm just going to mention names because they're very well known names. But this is not a dig at them. They actually have a lot of respect for these individuals. But you see. But I'll try and explain where I'm coming from here. You see, the Billy Jean is marketing. And what does he say he speaks from today's vantage point, I run ads, I get leads, I grow my business 100 million dollar great.


Tamra

What he's not telling you are the beginning phase of starting his business when he didn't know how to write a business plan, when he didn't know how to start a Facebook ad, when he didn't know the right copy and customer psychology and phases of the buyer's journey. We only get the Today genius version. And that has a keen way of either a making us feel incredibly inadequate, therefore positioning him as the person we want to pay great. Yeah, or B, it leads us down a path where we think, well, it must just be that easy.


Tamra

Yeah, all I got to do is run Facebook and get leads, grow business, and then we run Facebook ads. You get crappy leads or no leads or a ton of eyeballs and you and you go, this sucks. It doesn't work. I got lied to again. I got scammed again. And or there's other online marketers out there. We're done with Billie Jean. I don't want to attach what I'm about.


Tamra

I'm not I wasn't thinking about it anymore.


Michael

I just wanted for people watching. We're not this is not about him anymore. That was just one example. But it's you know, he's very well known. So then you have this other online marketer who says, I have figured out how to lasso the sun, the moon and the stars pay me seven dollars for this PDF. So you pay seven dollars for the PDF from the PDF, funnels you to an online webinar that you have to pay. Forty seven dollars for regular price, one ninety seven.


Michael

So then the webinar is there to position you for the four ninety seven offer. The four ninety seven offers to position you for the ten ninety nine offer the ten ninety nine. You are down a rabbit hole. Where you actually didn't get anything, you're not any further ahead, but what you've realized is why didn't they just ask me for five grand to give me everything that I mean?


Tamra

Yeah, yeah, exactly.


Michael

And that makes people skeptical. So God wink all of this around to. This point. You would think I by the way, people are going to go like, OK, we get it, he loves airplanes. But here's one more airplane analogy. A pilot has to do ground school before they ever get into the aircraft. They can't expedite ground school, they must learn everything that needs to be learned. Part of that is learning about the physics of of flight and the Y, you know, with the of lift and, you know, all these sorts of things.


Michael

Then they sit in the aircraft, then they learn how to get it down the runway, which is usually very bumpy. Then they learn how to get it into the air. And not until they have learned to do all of those things properly can they sustainably fly the plane at 30000 feet. All of us want to go o ground school o. Forget it, I just want to I want to soar with the I want to be up in the clouds, how do I get up into the clouds?


Michael

That's where these online marketers, some of them come in and they say, I've figured out a recipe that can teleport you to the clouds. Hey, you know what I mean? Yeah, because it just appeals to all of our so. Sustainability for me is first, it's getting real, hey, you. Just getting started. Here's what you really need to consider. Right. Well, how do you know, because I kept my mouth shut for over a decade while I did it for myself.


Michael

And while I helped others do it, I kept my mouth shut until I had proof. And guess what came from it? I got to build a business that put food on my table, that created a lifestyle, you know, so it's not like I didn't lose anything. But, you know, I grew I learned I failed. I failed Tamra. You know what I mean? But that also created wisdom that created the experience. So sustainability is getting real, it's getting clear how do I not flip flop because I have confidence in the path and the course that I've set.


Michael

Think about this scene for a minute from Alice in Wonderland. Mean for the children watching you guys, you're talking about pilot school and now Alice in Wonderland. I love it.


Michael

Think about this. How do you how do you stay the course? Well, first you have to decide where you want to end up and you have to unapologetically own it. That's that's what I want. That is not what I want. Right. Think about Alice. Alice arrives at a fork in the road. With the tree and who appears the qet, what is it, Cheshire Cat at Yelp and she goes, Help me, I don't know which way to go.


Michael

And he says, What? Where do you want to end up? And she goes anywhere, I guess. And what does he say then? Any path will get you there, I suppose.


Tamra

Hmm, I've never picked up on that, right?


Michael

Oh, good. Any path will get you there if you don't. Yeah. You want to go anywhere, any path will get you there. We do that too much in business and in marketing.


Tamra

Oh, really?


Michael

Oh, I want that. I want that. Or I want that. Or I want that. That's the same equivalent. Oh I need that software. I need that software. I need that software. Believe it or not, without clubhouse, without social media, there are still people on this planet who are growing their business at this very moment in time. Think about it in this context, I didn't feel any pressure with clubhouse once I knew about it because I knew it had actually existed before I had heard about it, and yet my business continued to grow.


Michael

Hmm. So it's about picking your path. Deciding what is your desired outcome, that's the true definition of success, by the way, if you look in the dictionary, a desired outcome. Pick your course, stick to it, and then when you see something that's enticing, cross-reference it back to your destination. Will it help get me there or could it possibly be a distraction? The last thing I would say to this effect, one of my mentors who who's passed now, but when he was old and frail, this man had been a captain of industry.


Michael

He was the CEO at one point of Max Factor Cosmetics. And, you know, like he had done a lot of stuff, played football. He was asked in his old age in a wheelchair, on his way out. Essentially, he was asked. You know, you've done all these things, how are you? How are you doing now that you're confined to a wheelchair? You know, his response was when you can no longer do the things you've always done, you can only do what matters most.


Michael

Well, so my question. About sustainability, really, is this for all who listen or are watching what actually matters most to you? Do that. Hmm. Then and only then will you not just experience a business experience, you will experience your life experience. And in a way that will make you happier, more fulfilled and satisfied so that 10 years from now you don't look back with regrets, 20 years, you don't look back with regrets. You see, I have this vision and perhaps it's a little bit morbid, but I have this vision of laying on my deathbed, surrounded by my family and holding my wife close to me with my kids and grandkids and their, you know, daughters, in-laws and son in law and and looking at each of them and saying, that was amazing.


Michael

Don't know why I love you. That was amazing. So every day, as it ties into being present, as it ties into business, as it ties into spirituality. I because of what I've experienced and it's put me down a path, I want to go home from the office every day saying. Maybe that wasn't amazing, but ultimately it was amazing, right, as I experienced Diablo's, the life of an entrepreneur. It's a rollercoaster always. That's the truth.


Michael

But you get to the end of the week and somehow you're like, that was amazing. Hey, I see I see what's happening here 10 years from now, 20, 30, every single time when you and I are in our 70s and 80s Tamra and we're at some retreat on a beach or choosing someone, I want to be able to look over and just smile and go, that was rad.


Tamra

Yeah.


Michael

Like I mean, like so we just got off the best roller coaster. That was amazing. Roller coasters scare the crap out of me, but when I get off, I'm always like that with life. That's what that's what I, I'm showing up every day going, OK, this is going to be some slow ups, really slow ups, and there's going to be some really fast declines. But then at the end of it, I'm going to go, that was awesome.


Michael

I want to do that again.


Tamra

So good. That's so good. And your example in it for everybody else, too, in the process of your screen. Right. The Happy Scream and the Holy Smoke scream. Right. And it it's the knowing that like it's because of that scream, that yell, that joy and that fear and doing it in any way and sitting there because you're you're strapped in at this point. Right. You've got somewhere to go. But you chose which roller coaster you're going to ride.


Tamra

Yeah. And that's that's the part of life that's so beautiful. And it's already been predestined where you're going to show up even in your choices. Just like you said at the beginning, I love it so much. What if it was already perfectly planned? And so whatever marketing you use, however you decide to show up for your life. And you're always or you're never. Remain sustainable in your belief that your purposed. And you example that every day, and I'm so grateful to have had this time with you and so grateful for you pouring out to our community, and I cannot wait to read your next best seller.


Tamra

And I hope that everybody turns in, tuned in to the dealer playbook. I can't wait to go back and listen to all of those epic people, including yourself, and hear you and what wisdom you lacked seven years ago compared to today, because you are a wise, my friend. Thank you.


Michael

Thank you. This was a lot of fun.


Tamra

It was your gift. I'll see you later.


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