A Driven Life with Tony Whatley
Today you are going to be blessed by my interview with Tony Whatley. He is known as the Side Hustle Millionaire and has a real passion for helping other entrepreneurs. The time with him was full of fire and joy – learning who he is as a person and why and how his life has come to this point. His shift was one we are all connected with solely in the humanness part of it. Enjoy this special time with Tony!
How mindset and beliefs can keep you from the promise God has for you
Goals or promises?
How his journey evolved into who he is today
Tony Whatley became known as “The Side Hustle Millionaire” after his book with the same title became a #1 best-seller on Amazon. But, this book title isn’t just fiction; it is based on his actual story. Tony once led a successful corporate career for over 25 years, but that is less interesting than the side-businesses that he created, which generated millions in profit. As an active entrepreneur himself, he still owns a few businesses. But, his real passion is teaching entrepreneurs how to start, scale, and sell their business, within his podcast and consulting brand 365 Driven.
Connect with Tony:
Show Notes: A Driven Life
All right, I wish I had some rad just like tunes right now, and maybe we put some overlay of some rad tunes because I am dancing you in to the side Hustle Millionaire with Tony Whatley today, who is not only in and of itself the side Hustle Millionaire based on his testimony, but also based on his best selling Amazon book. It’s incredible. You guys are going to be blessed by his three six five driven initiative. It’s his company. It’s his podcast.
So go tune into that after this one. Learn about how he had a twenty five year experience as a corporate career person and he left it and he did so by doing a side hustle that generated millions of dollars in profit while working full time, which blows my mind as an active entrepreneur. He owns a few businesses now and has a real passion for teaching entrepreneurs how to start scale and sell their businesses. And within his podcast, as mentioned, the three six five Drebin, you can learn how to do it.
So I was blessed by today’s conversation, the energy that he brought, the motivation, but ultimately, as you know, a heartbeat of mine activation. So, Tony, you’re a gift and I hope you guys go and follow him in all the places, all the spaces and enjoy today’s conversation. Get fired up because you’re going to feel driven. This is your God wink, the moment that heaven says for such a time as this, it’s time to own your joy, prioritize your health, discover your wealth and exude your wholeness.
It’s time to become truly fit. However, this isn’t a Fit in Faith Podcast, though. I’m a retired personal trainer and nutritionist. This isn’t business jargon or tips and tricks to landing your successful passion project, though that’s totally why I’m a business coach. This isn’t a quick fix health detox ploy, though. I’m all for therapy and I love Whole Foods. I do have a low side sweet tooth, though this isn’t confusing religious banter, though.
I’m an ordained minister still figuring out the many things and facets and faces of Jesus. It’s really none of that. So I’m wondering if you’re wondering what is this? Well, this is an opportunity to join me alongside other big dreamers, innovative movers and lifestyle shakers as we explore and share our messy comeback stories and discoveries with each of you fellow passionate seekers. The fit and face movement was first through my own trial and error, discovery of mind, body and soul alignment.
And to be totally transparent, my own entrepreneurial crash and burn experiences. I’ve learned firsthand that being fit isn’t about our physique at all. It’s not about our qualifying abilities or titles. It’s not about our potential. It’s truly about our God gifted passions, meeting our purpose. You are one step away from achieving your idea, your dream, your calling, your purpose, whatever you want to call it. And I want to be there for the moment that you say yes in freedom, clarity and confidence that you are living fully fit and do and whose you were made to be.
Welcome to the Fit in Faith Podcast with me Tamra Andress. There is no better time than now to get fit. Hello, hello, welcome to the Fit in Faith Podcast, I am already jazzed by that incredible intro, you look so official in your suit now you’re in a TI, so I like that. I get you in both both personas today. You guys, I am so excited to introduce you to a new friend. His name is Tony Whatley, also known as The Side Hustle Millionaire.
We just became acquainted as of Clubhouse Days in January. And so we’ve been just joining each other every morning from anywhere from five a.m. to 10 a.m. and then any hours in between that we’re jumping on there. So you guys, if you don’t know who he is, you can see his links. Right now, you’ve got to check out three, six, five driven dotcom. And we’re going to learn the back story of this side Hustle Millionaire, because I love the present and I love the dreaming.
I love the activation of how it gets to get there and become what it is. But I really feel like in order for us to activate others and serve others well, we’ve got to share the messy pieces, the hard pieces, the struggle pieces, the real life raw pieces. And so, Tony, thank you for being here. And if you want to introduce yourself further, I would love to just get to know you and dive deep into that conversation.
Well, first of all, everybody is watching you or listening to you. We all know you have some incredible energy. And that’s why I’m here. I love the the positivity you bring in those rooms on that clubhouse. Amazing app, by the way, isn’t it?
We get to actually hear the transfer of energy between each other and we’re looking at this little icon faces.
I love it so much.
We can’t fake it.
We really get it. It’s brought a lot of joy and a lot of insight and a lot of knowledge in the last three weeks that I’ve been on it. When did you actually get on the platform?
Really, the first day I was active was December twenty ninth. OK. Actually, I was the Android user and I actually went and got an iPhone just so I could get on it because all my friends were on it and my wife was giving me crap because she likes iPhones.
And I’ve always had Androids. I’ve always had iPhones in the corporate world. And I prefer to Androids my personal devices sometimes I always had two phones. So yeah. But thank you for the opportunity to introduce myself. My name is Tony Whatley. I’m a business coach, a keynote speaker, a podcast host and a best selling author here in the Houston, Texas area. This is my hometown. I grew up here and I live here now.
And and I guess the most interesting story about what I’ve done is I built companies which earned millions of dollars, not sales, actually profited millions, and I sold those for millions. While I maintain a full time corporate job in oil and gas as an engineer project manager and I was working for the major oil operators, really doing really well career wise. But my passion was always cars. So instead of worrying about the paycheck and all the benefits and the pensions and things like that, that was a career side.
I had a vested interest in that because I paid for my own engineering degree. But that was a struggle on its own. And then, well, I started building these businesses for cars. And the thing is, I built this automotive community called Ellis’ One Tecum, and it grew to over three hundred thousand registered members. And we made most of our money from advertisers that were there because we had such a busy site. We had over one hundred thousand unique visitors every single day.
So we’re really way ahead of where magazines were at the same era. And we had live racing events and car shows around the country and things like that to really monetize it. And these were all done in my part time. And I actually learned how to write systems and processes where I didn’t have to manage the business anymore. And I had a really demanding career. So I had to be really good at making a lot of money and a little bit amount of time.
And that’s why they called me the side Hustle Million. That’s the title of my book. So good.
So how long into your career did you actually start cultivating the book?
The book actually came out in twenty eighteen. So really later I actually sold my company in twenty seven and I’ve been helping people privately. I’ve helped people become several people that were staff members of mine at those two companies I started. I’ve helped many of them become millionaires and build seven and eight figure businesses of their own. And they were always telling me, Tony, you should be doing this full time, like look at these results. And honestly, I knew that.
But I didn’t like being on camera. I didn’t like being on stages. I didn’t like the way I sounded on my recorded voice. We all have those insecurities about ourselves. And the thing is, I was actually in a car accident twenty fifteen when I left the oil industry, and that really started to make me think about value time. And am I making enough impact or am I just living very comfortably? And that was the answer is I’m not doing enough.
So I decided at that point I need to go out there and make more impact in this world. And the best way for me to do that is to talk about business and confidence, things I have a lot of experience and results with. So now that’s what I do. I coach full time and I speak on stages and I’ve got a podcast.
I love that so much and I think it’s such a valuable piece. Especially hearing about the car accident is I feel like often there’s got to be this like shaking moment. There’s got to be this like recognition moment of like true purpose and true. I love how you said, like, the value of time and realizing, you know, we know it’s precious, especially even in the season that we’re in right now with covid and not really even being able to invest physical time with people.
How can we monetize that? How can we serve people? How can we be alongside people in a community driven space? And that’s why clubhouse is so cool in that regard. But I want to know more about like what were you what did the rest of your life look like when you were doing a side hustle and working full time? Were you married at the time? Did you have kids?
So actually, this is a good one, because one of the number one excuses that we hear when people want to start a business, everybody’s got ideas.
First of all, everybody’s like, I have got I’ve got business ideas and someday I’m going to start a business.
I’m just waiting for the right opportunity and all the excuses. What those are really are.
I started my first business in two thousand the year two two thousand one that era. I had a newborn son. He was born in January of 2000. I had a really toxic relationship with his mother because alcoholism and not me, but her and just verbally abusive.
And I didn’t grow up in that kind of a household. So I try to make it work. And it was just terrible relationship. And so I was depressed for about two years going into that whole thing. And I was broke because I just suffered an industry downturn, about six months of unemployment because I was a junior level engineer. There was an industry downturn. Nobody was hiring. I didn’t have enough experience. So I actually went back and started waiting tables with my engineering degree at the restaurant I did while I was in school.
Then I got an entry level engineering job that was actually paying me less than my previous career job. And I would just do that full time and I would go wait tables again every single night and on Saturdays and Sundays. Got to go work in a mechanic shop in the mornings to the afternoon, and then I go wait tables again at night. So I actually had three different jobs. A newborn depressed forty thousand dollars in credit card debt because I was unemployed for so long, I didn’t even have enough spare change to go on a toll road that I lived off of when my friends would call to go, hey, let’s go have dinner.
I didn’t have enough money to go buy dinner. I didn’t have enough gas money to get there, so I just had to save. My guess is to get back and forth to work each day. And and I said, you know what? I never want to be in this situation again. I knew that accountability. I put myself in those situations based on the decisions I had made, and I was always fully accountable. I got that from my parents are very to disciplinarian parents.
But the only way I could really get myself out of that was dig dig myself out of that hole by working those three jobs. And even after I started the business, it took me three more years to finally dig completely out of that hole just to get back to zero. And I think that most people are not willing to start because they realize that there’s a lot of there’s a lot of work to get to. Zero of zero is average is when I think about it.
Think about your fitness journey. You’re starting your business or your debt that you’re trying to take care of. You’re going to put in a lot of work just to get to zero. And it doesn’t sound exciting at all. But those of you that have that tenacity, that drive that willingness to go do that, you’re going to get the results. Everybody else is going to make the excuses. So it kind of goes back to the circle of excuses, right?
When someone tells me, Tamra, I don’t have time to start a business, I’ve got a family and I’ve got marriage. And it’s like, let me tell you about how I started my million plus dollars real.
It’s like he’s like, here’s the problem with those excuses.
They are perpetuated, invalid, back and forth between people who aspire to be average and people who are complacent. So if you were hanging out with a bunch of complacent people that are comfortable and you say, oh, hey, you should start a business, I don’t have time. Usually that’s an indicator that I don’t want to further this conversation. And you should respect that. I don’t have time. And then most people go, yeah, I don’t have time either.
So people who aspire to be average up to toss that excuse back and forth, oh, I got kids. Kids are just taking all my time and you don’t have time to do that. Well, here’s the thing. We all know what we want to do is how badly do you want that? Because if you’re not willing to do what it takes, you’re never going to get the result, because that is the major excuses, because it’s also an insult to everybody that’s become successful, that had children or had a marriage or had adversity moments or had tragedy or had situations far worse than you do.
So there’s millions of people that have done it before. You said those excuses are not valid around coaches like me. We’ll call you out on this thing.
It’s so true. And I think that this is a conversation I’m constantly having with people and even the people that come in and they’re ready to go to the next step and they’re ready to come into the coaching there then becomes the limiting beliefs there then becomes the mindset breaks of evaluation, of worthiness, of capability. So they say, I’m ready to to come into community with you. I am ready to start taking your coaching advice. I am ready to actually launch this business aside from money, because that’s probably one of the biggest things, is they’re not willing to invest in themselves, but they really want other people to invest in them.
Is the recognition of this mindset in this limiting belief?
How do you approach clients when they come to you and they say, OK, I’m ready to do this, but I can’t charge this or I don’t have the valuation or I’m not worthy or capable, I actually will decline those customers and I’ll let them know while I’ll say that I do not do not come to me because or do not decide to work on me because of a financial decision.
That’s that’s the that’s the thing. Because here’s the thing. Our society, any westernized culture especially, we’re perfectly fine writing a check over four years to go get a bachelor’s degree and spend fifty to one hundred thousand dollars even more in Ivy League.
You’re willing to go invest that. And that’s socially acceptable to go write that check for fifty thousand hours most. People graduating put themselves in severe debt, getting a career that doesn’t even pay back the debt for their college, but they’re OK with that and nobody judges that negatively. But when you go talk about hiring a coach for ten thousand dollars, 20 thousand hours, the coaches are higher cost. One hundred thousand dollars a year.
Right. And so when you think about that, that’s an investment. That’s the same thing as in education. But here’s the difference. You’re actually learning from someone who has achieved what you would like to achieve. You’re not learning from people who just read somebody’s book and act like they know something. Because college I hate to say it. I loved it. I went through I went through the whole program myself. I get it. I’m not someone without a college degree that bashes on college.
I’ve done that. So understanding it now, I would never trade places with any of the professors I learned from and I would gladly go work for free, go work for free from somebody who actually knows what they’re doing, that’s going to teach you things and mentor you.
And some people are unwilling to work for free, but they’re willing to go pay somebody to learn from them. That has never achieved anything. So college, when I think about it, it’s how to create the middle managers of the world by people who have never achieved anything in their life.
That’s a really good and so interesting because I too went to college and went for my business management degree and thought, like, this is the only option when you graduate high school, this is what you do. My husband, on the contrary, he is also an entrepreneur and a successful entrepreneur at that.
He didn’t go to school and he went right into a trade specific space. And so he does heating and cooling and does it on geothermal houses across our state. It’s incredible to see these massive homes and the passion that he brings into that and the expertise that he comes into that. And he got more of a college education and knocking on doors of strangers and literally selling and making relationships and curating conversation with people who who were very different than him and understanding humans than I did in school, partying on the weekends and not in the spaces and places that I should be.
Yes, I did some amazing things when I was in school. I’m so grateful for it. My business plan was actually what launched me into being an entrepreneur right out the gates. I never went to a job fair or anything like that. But it’s the recognition that there are time and place and value place and stamps of monetization that we have to understand. We have no desire for our children to go to school. We want them to travel the world.
We want them to be culturally sound. We want them to have relationships with people if they choose to go to college, because that’s the type of career path that they want. So be it. But I think you’re so right that this is like such a privileged step that we’re willing to go into debt over. And that is just not satisfying to me if we’re trying to be average. And then they’re saying, oh, start way down here to the average.
None of us are getting a head start on what we think this college degree is going to serve. And I too, I, of course, know that there is value in going to school for specific trade, things that couldn’t be taught in a trade school or a book or traveling. However, this is like the passion of an entrepreneur and I really having mentors like you where I can just like learn that’s where the value comes. I think that’s totally true.
My son is twenty one and he takes courses here and there, but we’ve never pressured him to go to school. We made sure that we give him the options and he decides what’s he wants to do. But yeah, unless you’re wanting to be in the medical field or a lawyer or things that require an actual degree, by all means, go get those things.
But nowadays, information is readily available. We carry these little devices in our hands, you know, these little cell phone things that have literally the world of information free to your fingertips.
When I was young, the only way we could get information was blowing the dust off of the Encyclopedia Britannica and flipping through pages and then maybe going to the store and buying books or going to school and learning from people who had written the books that they sell you for three hundred dollars a book, because that’s how they make the real money. And nowadays, with information so easily available and mentorship and podcasts and audio books and clubhouse and all these different ways to get information, I think that you should actually be applying your attention to learn from people who have actually achieved things.
Well, that’s apprenticing and working for free or trading some of the skill sets, especially for younger listeners. Maybe you’re really good at making videos. Maybe you’re really good at creating graphic design or building Web pages or doing some sales calls or things like that. You know what? You can actually trade those skill sets to go work for some of these people and they’ll actually trade their skill sets in their mentorship for that that service. So what are you willing to do?
What are you willing to do if you’re willing to do what it takes? That’s what it comes down to.
It’s so incredible, so valued. And one of the things that you said actually on your podcast, which is also the name of his company, three six five Drebin, go listen to it. It’s amazing just listening to your voice, too. When I when I first first play, you have just like a trust factor about your voice. That’s really powerful. So I appreciate that. But then also that you went. You went deep right on the first one and started sharing about your testimony and how you were raised, and I think there’s a lot of information in our roots and so recognizing that.
But one of the things that you said that stuck out to me was all about keeping promises to yourself and actually doing the work. And I think we especially now we’re in January, everyone’s like, let’s go set, let’s do certain things. But like goal setting and even prioritizing your day, it’s like you have to actually still do. There is action that comes in the building and the cultivating of this. So talk to me about keeping promises and what that looks like from an activation standpoint as a side hustle.
Well, I think a lot of people ask about motivation and confidence. How do I get confidence to and how to get motivated?
And here’s the unfiltered truth for everybody that needs to hear that successful people do not require motivation. We’re driven by results. The fact we’re willing to go do things even when we don’t want to do them, because we’re driven by the actual result. For example, I go to the gym six days a week and I’m pretty religious about that since I turned 40 because I kind of slacked off between thirty five to thirty nine and I started getting a belly and stuff like that.
I didn’t like that how it defined me. So I was like, I’m going to go fix this.
And I would say that most of the time I don’t feel like going to the gym. I really don’t, I really don’t feel like going to the gym. But then I always remember I want the result.
And then second thing I remember is that every single time I’ve left the gym, going back all the way since I was 14, playing high school football. I’ve never regretted having gone, so when I’m leaving the gym that day, I’m like, man, I’m so glad I worked out today. I feel amazing. So I know that that’s the feeling. That’s the reward. That’s the result I’m going to get by going. So therefore, I can kind of lean and think about the future result and trick myself into going.
And that’s what we do as successful people. And some people think they need to sit around and listen to inspirational things or look at motivational meems. And they’re like, oh, and some people think that taking action is sharing a motivational meme because it makes them feel good, the endorphin release. And they think that’s the action for the day. No people, successful people don’t do that. They go do the result. They go create the good, take the action.
So the confidence part is actually when you start to keep these little promises to yourself and you start to get the result from those. So it could be as simple as what does that mean, that I’m going to eat today? I’m going to go to the drive thru and get a double greasy cheeseburger with bacon and an extra large coke and fries with extra salt.
Man, that sounds good sometimes, but is that what I should be eating, even though I’m trying to stay in shape or I’m trying to do things for my business, I need to have the most energy possible.
I want to look good. I want my clothes to fit right. I want to walk in the room and people realize that that person has discipline. Well, I’m not going to get that at the end of a drive thru window. And so I will actually go to the grocery store. I’ll go buy some healthier version of the food, maybe a mid-level restaurant and buy something and just take it home and eat so or cook yourself. So these are the littlest decisions that you make that add up to the better version of yourself.
Right. And I tend to think about myself as years in advance, three to five years. What is that visualization of who you would like to be? How do you look? How do you speak? How do you address? What is the people around you look like? What are they saying? How is your support group? What is the number that you have in your bank account? What are the things that you visualize yourself to become? And then when you start to have decisions made today, you need to ask yourself, what would that future version of tonier, that future version of Tamra make that decision today, whether that’s the meal or the skipping the workout or that’s not picking up the phone or network and call back or reach out to the people that are going to make things happen for you.
These are the decisions that we make. We make on a smallest level. And when you start to make those right decisions and you get the right result, you get a little bit more confidence. And that confidence is like bricks and it just starts to build and it starts to stack up. And then over time, you look back, you’re like, wow, I’ve actually achieved a lot of things that I said I was going to do. It’s really it comes down to really being simple.
It’s you do what you say and say what you do. It’s like you have to do both of those. And when you do that, that’s how you become truly confident.
That’s so good. And so much like fruit is established in that obedience and in that discipline, because it is not only promise and I love to hear about your faith perspective towards everything that you do, but I’m also thinking about it. I as an entrepreneur and like somebody who’s just like, go, go, go, go, go. Everyone is like, oh, you’re so busy. I am so sorry. I didn’t call. I didn’t tell you because I just thought you were busy.
And I’m like, I’m not busy. I am so intentional. Like every hour might be filled. And to you it looks busy, but to me there is purpose in that step. And so if we look at every part of our life, because I so believe in this mental, emotional, spiritual alignment before our businesses actually thrive to the place that they’re meant to and intended to and promise to, is that if I don’t treat the other parts of my my day, if I don’t treat other relationships, if I don’t treat other things, because entrepreneurship to me is it’s I’m I feel for it.
Right. And so I can do it all day, every day. I could literally stay inside of the one little phone booth that I have in my coworking space and never leave and be completely content doing all the things, including creating relationships like I am with you right now.
But I have other priorities that are equally as important to me. My husband, my children, my home, my parents, my siblings. Like there’s a lot happening that we’re constantly in congruency with or out of alignment with, and that’s a choice. But when you said it from the perspective of looking at your health, just like a choice that you would make towards looking at your business, if someone said, oh, go like this part of your business on fire, I would be like, no, not a chance.
You know how hard I work to get there. But if someone is like, do you want a greasy cheeseburger on? Like, maybe, maybe I’ll give you some time.
It’s OK. As long as it’s like, wow, you beef in, like, the right stuff. Right. Is like the recognition that like yes there are give and take. But when it comes to my like space of my business I safe harbor, it’s so, so much. And if I could play into that in every other area. Oh my goodness. Like the capabilities, the abilities. I am way into my fitness and way into my.
But the way that. And what I fuel my body with, but do I always get the water intake? No, this is today. I also have yet to eat because I’ve been so busy. But like, there is a capability within us. It’s the knowing and the keeping of the promises, I think, that are so important. And I actually think I might switch from goals altogether and just say their promises because it mirrors my relationship with God a lot.
So talk to us through that.
Do you what is your faith base? What is your mental spiritual alignment like? Oh, no, he’s frozen and he looks so handsome, frozen. Where are you, Tony? Oh, goodness, I thought he was listening the whole time. Oh, he dropped down. He’ll be back in. All right, I’m going to keep going live. Tony is incredible. I’m just going to give him a couple plugs right now. Three, six, five.
Drivin the side hustle millionaire. You have heard the nuggets that he has been dropping. Absolutely blowing me away. He is an active entrepreneur. He’s a coach. He also and this is something else I wanted to get into. And he also is a retreat host. And so he does a lot of similar things that I do. He’s clearly before me ahead of me. But to partner with people like this is so valuable. We’re talking about connections.
We’re talking about actually doing the things so often. I have people on to the podcast. They’re like, how did you get them on the podcast? And I’m like, you know what? I just asked, what if you just ask, what if you curated a promise, you took the actions to keeping it and then you just move forward day by day intentionally instead of busy? I would really believe that Tony would think that that would not only establish your business, it would start your business.
It would sell your business. I want to talk to him. You guys, he’s sold millions of dollars towards a company that he started as a side hustle. This is insane to generate profit like that while also having a full time career.
I coach clients like this all the time. And I think it’s so valuable and so interesting because I didn’t do that. I would have maybe things on the side going, but never trying to turn a profit in that space. Even when we launched our business and our boutique in my twenties, I had no idea what was going to become of that or that I was going to be building anything on the side. So maintaining the boutique and starting the overall company of a global brand company at that, it felt like I was doing so many different things, but I had to become intentional and I was missing intentionality in my life, which was a part of the reason that those things did not thrive for me.
The reasons that I let them go, the reasons that I had to start knew the reasons that I had to come into that understanding of alignment. And so there is just so many pieces of the puzzle. And if you go into experiences that need, you’re starting that need. You’re yes, that is where you’ve got to get started. Because without that, you’re missing the opportunity. You’re missing the opportunity to thrive. You’re missing the opportunity to become the millionaire like Tony is.
And so I just want you guys to learn a bit more about him. It looks like his Internet might have cut out and he’s unable to be here. But he says something specific on his site and I want to share it with you. It says, To be part of a movement that moves you forward, connects with people like Tony, get on clubhouse, join the conversation, be bold enough, be brave enough, be confident enough in who you are right now so that you can become that person three, five, ten, twenty years from now that you desperately desire to be.
And it takes your action today to get you to that place. He talks about entrepreneurship being lonely, and it absolutely can be if you choose to travel alone. He says that there’s different societal norms that put us into those placements. But he also understands that in order to achieve success, you have to find and cultivate community in the midst of that. And it is one thousand percent a part of my testimony. I try to do it alone. I literally try by all my force and might to single handedly do something that I was even in a partnership with partnership, in fact, with my own mother.
That’s a whole nother conversation for a whole other day. She’s incredible and still running that business today. But it’s the recognition that I couldn’t do it alone. I couldn’t learn to delegate. I couldn’t learn to recognize that being a team player, there’s no I in team. Right. I know all of the shenanigans, but even when I ran for a different SCA and presidential slots when I was young and I was in charge of a nonprofit and I had a team all around me, I never felt like.
Hmm, I never felt like I was fully linking arms, I felt like I was the leader and I was cultivating in that space thinking this is what I need to do, like get in line and follow. And being a leader is not that at all. In fact, being a leader sometimes is being behind, sometimes being unseen, sometimes being amidst the crowd and no one knowing your name. But in fact, you’re propelling people forward. And I think Tony and I could partner in this conversation to say that it is our passion to propel to push people into the limelight.
He started part of his journey in speaking and even starting a podcast was getting outside of his comfort zone and getting into what is called Toastmasters, which everybody has access to. It’s a free membership. There’s one right local in your community, I am sure of it. And if not in your region. And so you can sign up for Toastmasters and you can chat and it will bring to life your ability to speak. I think oftentimes, yeah, he’s back.
We were talking about how might that Internet crash ring. That is a OK, we were talking about your ability to speak and how you cultivated that through Toastmasters, stepping into your confidence based on a fear that you had. So I was just telling a bit about your your testimony, your retreat’s, how we share and partner in those retreats so you can kind of go wherever you feel that I know that’s kind of debacle and you have tech issues.
If we’re on the subject of public speaking, I could actually share the story of when I discovered I actually had legit stage fright.
Oh, let’s hear. Let’s hear.
So first of all, corporate wise, you have run companies with seventy five people and I’ve managed hundreds of millions of dollars in corporate with large teams, usually fifty to one hundred people. And so what happened is I lied to myself for the last twenty years, OK. And corporate thinking that I am a good public speaker because I could give a hell of a slideshow presentation and I could get up there and do a Project Kick-Off meeting or talk a little bit about the the pep rally at the team meetings.
And what I come to realize once I started to join Toastmasters, which was twenty seventeen when I was around forty three at the time.
I realized that that was all a lie and actually we have a lot of people are coming in, I actually became the president of the Toastmasters about a year into it. And the thing is, is that when you start to understand that your employees or your team are you’re actually their captive audience. Right.
If you’re the boss, they can’t go take a break or surfs Instagram while you’re talking or yawn or tune out or get on clubhouse or whatever, because you’re the boss. So if you’re the manager or you’re the boss or the anything or CEO right now and you’re thinking that you’re good at public speaking, I’m going to challenge you. If you’ve never had lessons in it, you’re not a good public speaker because there’s a lot of tactics and strategies and things that we use for our voice inflections and presence and eye contact and gestures.
All these things we learn help you become more influential when you speak.
And if you’ve never had training, you wouldn’t know any of these things. I didn’t know any things. I thought I was good at this because most people, a vast majority of people think that public speaking is when you have that occasional courage to stand in front of a group of people and say something. So here’s what happened.
When I discovered when I actually had stage fright, I was asked, I was doing consulting work for a natural gas company and the vice president of the vision that I was in, he was supposed to go represent this company at a large convention here in the Houston area.
Like a thousand people, they were going to be VIP, one of the larger companies. Right. And he couldn’t make it. And he said, hey, you live by that hotel. That is going to be it. Would you like to go represent our company? There would be easy drive for you since you know how to commute downtown is like, yeah, I’d love to go hang out for two days at a beautiful hotel and get free food and meet some really influential people and sit at the VIP table.
And and so I volunteered gladly to go do that. Now they’re paying me my hourly rate to go do that. So why not? That’s fun. And while the guy was on stage, he was asking the audience a huge room. You got to visualize this.
We had those big round tables and it was a thousand people. So it’s not even like thousands of rows. Rows of seats is easy to get a thousand people in a room.
This is the big round tables with eight people, massive room, dude’s room. And I’m not I’m near the front because we’re in one of the VIP tables and the guy is asking from for some suggestions on safety topics that maybe we could bring in from different levels of industry that we might implement into the natural gas. As I well, I come from offshore construction, deepwater construction. We have a lot of different things we do.
And I guess I raise my hand not thinking he would call me first, but he did. And so we’re close enough.
I actually could see the speaker. He wasn’t probably ten feet away from me. So I start to blurt out my answer to him and he’s like, hold up, let’s get this gentleman on microphone so everybody in the room can hear his response. And why don’t you go ahead and stand up.
We’ll bring you the microphone. So I’m like, you got to be kidding me. I just wanted to give an answer and kind of deliver the content and get out of there. Right. Hoping he would repeat it. So I stand up and I can still I could feel my body core temperature starting to rise, starting getting that the sweaty palms, the cotton mouth, the heat, the sweat droplets forming on the top of your head, like when you eat spicy food maybe on the sides of your nose.
And the lady with the microphone, bless her heart, she was like on the other side of the room and she had to be the slowest walker. And it was probably not slow. But when you’re living in slow motion because of that fear, it’s like, oh, my gosh, she’s taking forever to get here.
Where is she? And you’re standing there and you get a thousand eyeballs, really two thousand eyeballs.
Everybody’s got two eyes looking at you and you’re just standing there going, wow, this man, I’m so glad I got a jacket on because I can feel the armpit sweat start pouring out of my arms.
And I took the microphone with my cold, sweaty hand and gave a little shaky voice type answer nobody else could hear. My voice is shaking, but I knew it wasn’t my normal voice and I gave a good answer.
And then he’s like, That’s brilliant.
And everybody applaud. I’ve got a thousand people. It was loud and I sat back down and for the next five minutes I’m still sweating. And I was using those crappy. What do they always use the cloth napkins?
I mean, come on, really, you should be there and you got the crappy white cloth napkins and I’m trying to paint my sweat off, but those things don’t absorb any things. You’re just going to smear it around. And I’m thinking to myself, what the heck just happened there? That was the weirdest feeling I’ve ever had said stagefright. That was stage fright.
I stood up in front of a thousand people that I did not even know. I’m not even from this industry. I had no connections to this industry. But I’m here and I’m representing a big company. And I had to say my name or what company it was. And I’m like, most people were like, you know what?
I’m just never going to put myself in that situation ever again. I’m never going to raise my hand. I’m going to sit in the back in the shadows. I’m going to take my nametag off so nobody calls on me.
But I’m more of a daredevil personality. And I actually started to get excited. I said I found a new. Here, because I know just like most successful people know that when we go conquer and confront those fears, that’s where real growth occurs. And I didn’t realize I had stage fright because I’ve been lying to myself for 20 years thinking I was a good slide show presentation. And talking to my team had big teams manage big money like lies, all lies, egocentric, right.
Based around that.
And so that was the discovery. I said, OK, well, how do I get over this? I don’t want that to happen again, but I want to I want to not have it again because I want to be prepared. So I started Googling just like everybody else. And I joined Toastmasters and I went to a few clubs and found the one that vibe with me. And I joined it. And it it really did change my life. And most people that that you hear, like public speaking training, they think, well, Tony, I don’t want to stand on the stage.
It’s scary or I don’t want to be a motivational speaker. They make all these excuses not to join. But the thing is, is that the tactics that you learn from being a motivator or not being a motivation, just being a speaker, apply whether you’re speaking to one person or a thousand people. It’s the same skill set, just different different energy levels. So if you have something inside you that is your story or you want to share your knowledge or do something any time you open your mouth.
The better you’re able to convey that, the better you’re going to be received and you’re going to make your points and people are going to start to listen because we can control our voices and use different tactics to really just get the message out there, be more influential, more more persuasive the way we speak. And the best way to think about that is if you were to watch a movie or a television show and you’re watching characters with dialogue, imagine if they spoke like this really monotone, one volume, one pitch, one speed, and they just went back and forth talking like, this is the old version of me.
This is pre twenty seventeen, Tony. I call him Mano Monotone because it’s actually a pretty good name for that. But this is how I would have been sounding in twenty seventeen. And most people you hear on clubhouse, they kind of speak like this, they’re just giving answers and it’s like, oh my God, it’s so boring.
Yes. Men, especially if you cannot speak with emotion because it’s not comfortable. We we don’t grow up as little boys speaking with emotion. Women actually have a little advantage there because women speak with emotion with their friends all the time. They get excited when they speak. And I love that men. It’s like we have to be super stoic and super alpha and super studly and not no emotion allowed, no crying aloud.
So you actually had to reframe and learn how to speak that way. And it takes a lot of time, a lot of reps. And every time you start to raise your range a little bit, it gets it’s uncomfortable, but then it becomes your new normal and you raise a little bit more and it’s uncomfortable again. And then it becomes your new normal. And then once you get the awareness and be able to do this, you can speak like this all the time.
And it’s so valuable and so true and and that people think I have to be in front of I don’t want to be in front of more than five people. My husband won’t even get on a podcast that’s not live on video because he is like no other people are going to be listening to me. Public speaking. It feels like public speaking to him. He’s like, I don’t want to do it. But if you get an hour, oh, my gosh, you get him in a room and he’s like center stage and he’s theatrical and hands moving and just so good he’s so good at speaking.
And this is what he has to do, just like I said, knocking on doors. Do you think you can knock on a door and answer in a monotone? Hi, I’m here to you back new. It doesn’t work like that. So everybody has something within their career that speaking is what you need to do. And nowadays, especially in this virtual world, if you don’t have that ability to speak and really connect with somebody via a lens on your computer or your phone on FaceTime or something, that’s like clubhouse where you’re not actually visible, you’re missing an opportunity that is so beautiful and that’s connection.
And that’s like that heartbeat of who you are. And so inflection matter is excitement matters. Emotion matters. I have a friend who a pastor who he can, like, ramp up so quickly. And I like listen to him speaking and I’m like, so excited, like, get out of my chair.
And you have to remember that there has to be the moment where I’m going to come back down because there’s no way or I’m going to be running around the building in forty five minutes if I listen to him. Right. It’s like being able to come back down and find that subtlety and what it is that you’re sharing as well. You got to captivate people. And so I feel like you’ve done that in so many amazing ways.
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When you’re with a coaching client and you’re teaching them either, I’m sure speaking isn’t necessarily the one thing you’re talking about. It’s more business and tactics and strategies and automation and scaling and all of that stuff. How do you do that when you are at a retreat, a collectively? Because I think one on one coaching is a thing in and of itself. We’re probably really good at it. But the group coaching something that I’m stepping into, I’d love to learn more about.
Are you are you asking about the format or how do you are we still sort of speaking? Yeah, no, I think more like the the relational fact of like still connecting because you can speak to a thousand people and connect with them. But like, when you’re in a group setting, I was looking at your retreat’s, for instance, I’m about to have one and to loom in just a couple of weeks. I’m so excited. But you have 30 people in a room and you’re trying to connect and give space to everyone.
What does that look like? To me, I think any time you’re firing up a microphone or you’re standing on a stage or doing a video, you have to understand that you have to be an entertainer. Right. You may be thinking, well, I’m not an entertainer. I’m not an actor. I’m not a comedian.
Like, well, you should be entertaining people if you want people to watch you and actually grow an audience because, you know, to be OK with calling yourself an entertainer and you may not be a polished or a bad ass entertainer, but you need to understand that you can grow into that. These are like skill sets. They’re not talents. Most people wrongly assume they see people like me staying on stage or yourself doing the same things that, oh, she’s so talented.
She’s so talented. I wish I could do that.
I keep all of my old videos out there. They’re on my old Instagram. If you swipe way back, I can go to twenty seventeen. You’ll find all the videos I did almost every single day that was learning what I did. And I was monotone, like I mentioned earlier. And, and I’m never going to delete those because people don’t believe and for themselves until I go show them, they’re like, oh my gosh, you’re this, you’re not even the same.
I’m not, I’m not the same person internally or externally anymore that I was three years ago or even one year ago. I’m always improving every year. So when you’re in a retreat setting it still you have to be an entertainer. You’re the host, you’re the emcee actually consumes a lot of energy when we do these podcasts. I’ve I do three. I actually did three earlier this morning and I’m on this one now. I want to go take a nap after this, but I’ll give it all I got while I’m on that stage from that Mike, I want to be an entertainer.
I want to share that energy and transfer energy through this microphone and through that camera. And when you’re aware that it’s not about you, it’s about serving the who’s listening, serving, who’s watching. That’s when you start to be less worried about the insecurities. How do I look and are my clothes right? Is my hair straight or do I got green things in my teeth? Like all these things that you worry about, the fear of criticism and judgment shows that you’re too inwardly focused on yourself.
You’re worried about the insecurities. We all have them. Everybody has them. No matter how good looking they are, no matter how successful they are, everybody’s got the same insecurities. OK, I would even argue that some of the people that you think that would have them the least have them the most. So knowing that we’re all human, we all have that emotional thing and you’ve got to remove that inward thinking of thinking, what are they thinking about me?
What are the people seeing about me? What are the people hear from me? That’s what you’re worried about. But when you start to learn the tactics and the strategies to actually become a more skillful speaker, you shift outward. You’re no longer worried about yourself.
You’re worried about delivering value and teaching and inspiring and educating the audience, the listeners, the viewers.
I come on these shows to be focused on you, and I always challenge myself that every interview I do, I try to make it the best interview I’ve ever done. I’m always trying to think about how can I tell that last story that I told in another podcast or another stage? How can I be a little bit more vivid on my details? How can I take you on that emotional journey that you described? You talked about going on? It’s like a roller coaster.
We want to take people in the highs. The lows inspire them, and we always want to finish on a high. So how do I do these things a little bit better each time. So you start to sound like a better entertainer. That’s what we had to work on. So in a group saying it’s no different, I the volume might be different because I’m in a smaller room, you know, but that’s really it. I’m actually still going to give them the same performance as I would do in front of a thousand people.
Yeah, that’s so good. And I feel like a huge thing for me in I guess the word you’re using is performance is realizing. At a point in my life, a pivotal point in my life where I felt like I was removing a lot of mask, and you actually talk about your in one of your podcasts about the titles that you had to let go of and step into something new. And everyone knew you as one thing and then you had to transition into this new thing.
And what did that look like? A huge part of my performance is actually lack thereof, which is that the authenticity, which is the transparency, which is the like wiping my makeup off and like wearing my mom bun and my PJs and saying, like, hey, guys, this is real time right now, you know, and like being with my community in all of those in between moments so that when I am in the space of being able to really, like, engage people in a larger format, they get to see and they know me and they know my heart more.
And the theatrics that come alongside with for me, which is the body language and being still on this Tamra because I’m only in a small little boxes so hard because I am a mover and shaker and I want people to feel that energy because I feel like just like you said, confidence is something that you can catch. Yes. Catch it. If you allow yourself to step forward into it.
Otherwise you’re dodging it just like you wanted to do in that Mike was coming your way, like I want to dodge this moment so bad. But instead you leaned in and then you actually took the next step up, which was to learn and to better yourself. So I know we’re closing in on time and I value this conversation so much. I want to go circle back to the question that I’ve asked you before the mic went off, which is like so perfect timing because it’s one of the hardest questions.
And I talk about we talk about fitness briefly. We talked about our emotional health and our physical health. And I want to hear like, where are you when it comes to your mental, emotional and spiritual health and how do you stay consistent towards those passions, towards those promises that we talked about earlier?
Well, that’s a good one.
I think that mental health, especially with entrepreneurship, is something that most people don’t talk about then I think it stems from loneliness, because a lot of times as entrepreneurs, especially, we don’t have a peer network of local friends that are on the same level. And I don’t know about you. I’m not really driven person. I’m always got things in my mind about things I need to work on. And I don’t like small talk. So a lot of times you go into social settings, you go on vacations with couples vacations and people want to talk about the shows.
They’re binge bingeing on Netflix or the sports teams or and I get that that’s sometimes entertaining, but I can only handle about ten minutes of that. I’m looking for the exit door, so I’m kind of start to mentally check out now when I’m around the right people. We don’t talk about remember when we talk about imagine when I imagine when this happens.
Imagine when this happens to many people, focus in the remember when stuff they want to bring up history because they peaked in high school and stuff like that. They’re the Uncle Rico from Napoleon Dynamite and they can throw a pigskin a quarter mile and you’re still wearing their leather jacket and stuff like that. It’s like, cool, cool, bro. Like, I’ll have a beer with you once in a while, but I can’t hang out that that that pity party anymore.
Like you should be picking every year. Not not back twenty years ago. Right. So surround yourself with the right people. And if that’s not available to you locally via Chamber of Commerce or entrepreneurship networks go virtually I mean entrepreneurship with thirty seven hundred members that we kick out all the negative people. You run a group yourself. So you understand that when you have yourself surrounded by people who are like minded, who have the same core values, the same ethical minimum requirements, they’re going to challenge you.
They’re not going to let you have those excuses and you’re actually going to have some really deep, engaging conversations. They’re going to encourage you support you, teach you things, share the mistakes and lessons they’ve had.
And those are the kind of conversations you should be having, especially if you feel like you’re lonely now with apps like Clubhouse Man that is like the savior for so many people.
That may be feeling lonely this right now. And if it requires you to go buy a used iPhone six for eighty nine dollars on eBay because you’re an Android person, go spend eighty nine dollars. I can tell you that I literally share hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not millions of dollars of advice on that clubhouse app every day, along with hundreds of other people are doing things that same thing. So is going to pay for itself really in the first hour, that phone that that phone cost.
And when you think about that is like, OK, remove excuses because I see this I’ll post about clubhouse on my Facebook post or my Instagram, and there’s always going to be someone is like, well, I don’t have an iPhone.
Well, how do you how do you solve not having an iPhone? I mean, is it is it something that’s unobtainable or is it something that you can never it was only one of those in the world. I just happen to have it.
I mean, you’re literally complaining or making an excuse. That’s a boundary. And you’ve got to get out of that mindset. To me, I had an injury. I talked about it earlier is like, I want to be on this app. I don’t want to miss out. It sounds a lot like a lot of fun. I got to go buy an iPhone, whether it’s new or used or whatever, go make it happen. Quit making excuses.
So that’s the mental thing. Go around with people that can support you and just be around them and engage with them. Don’t sit in the audience in the shadows and don’t raise your hand and try to lurk. Just go go force yourself to be really uncomfortable and engage and have some good conversations. Now, the mindset that’s about being coached by working with the right coach, we all have head trash. We all have self lemming beliefs, every one of us.
And there’s a lot of things about money that we build relationships with money before even 13 years old. Most people don’t realize that a lot of people will see things that’s expensive and they go, I’ll never be able to afford that. Or they hear my title like I’ll Never Be a Millionaire. Well, the fact is, if you say it that way, you never will be. You will never have money, literally. You will never have money and you will never be a millionaire if you say it that way.
Because when you tell your brain that you shut off your brain to potential opportunities that lead you to the path to that result. So when we think about it like I’m not a millionaire yet, that’s a different way of reframing that, because now your brain is like, oh, so do I have a goal? Is that one of my goals? You want to be a millionaire? To start looking for opportunities in your brain is a very powerful like a like a computer.
And it’s always scanning the horizon, looking for opportunities or the people or different things to maybe get you to that goal. But if you shut it off and say you’ll never be, that it’s not going to look anymore, it’s just going to go take a nap like like most of the people in the population. So keep your mindset strong and your good coaches will listen to the way you respond to things and they’ll be like, oh, that’s nice.
Well, let’s go back to why you said this, and they’re going to call you out on that and go, where did that come from? And you’re going to go, well, I don’t know where that came from. Well, did your dad say that to you? Yeah, I believe you did. Well, why did your dad say, we dig deep, we go down several layers, we find the root cause of where that belief came from, and then we stomp all over it and smash into pieces.
And then you’re like, next time you say you catch yourself and go, Oh, that’s my dad’s grandpa uncle telling me I was not going to amount to worth nothing. And the bullies in the high school and this and that, like they’re holding me down like now like that doesn’t that does not match my logical mind and the actual results I’ve created. So therefore I’m going to disregard that negative self talk. That’s the mindset piece. Get a good coach, no good spiritual.
I believe there is something out there we can’t understand. I love the Bible and I grew up in a really mixed household of Southern Baptist with my dad and Buddhist with my Japanese mom.
So it was kind of like I got the nature and the honor and all these things on the Japanese side. And then I got the don’t drink and do everything right now.
All the other religions are going to hell because we’re the Baptist is it’s like this team, like you got this really strong team and then the nature side. So it was a really weird dichotomy of of things going on. But I got to see the values of both of those, which I am grateful for. And so I would say that I lean more towards the Buddhist side and more being in one with nature. I love to see my animals. I face the window and I live in the woods and I’ve got deer running through and bobcats and red cardinals and rabbits and all kinds of stuff I can watch out my window.
It’s like a Disney movie most of the days. And and so I just really feel and touch with nature. And after my car accident, I actually value life so much I don’t even step on bugs unless they’re ugly cockroaches that come into my house. If you come in my house, you’re getting stomped on. But any other bugs kind of pick up with a paper towel and you put them outside. And I don’t even step on bugs on the sidewalk anymore because I really value life that much.
And I think that everything has a reason to live. So it’s kind of it’s a little bit weird to answer, but that’s hard enough.
And this is the thing like where people know that it’s like those belief systems, though, establish who you are all the time. And I love that you even had that shift after that experience, because I feel like you got further in touch with the understanding of what that is and who or how or what and where that be. We’re all connected and ultimately all sharing in the humanness of who we are. And so I love I love that the one thing that spoke to me the most was the understanding of and the emotional side of things and really recognizing that you have the power to shift all of these things that you were going to circle all the way back to the beginning.
You are your own worst enemy in each of those things. Your limiting beliefs are what will keep you from the. Opportunity, they will keep you from the next connection, they will keep you from the promise and the goal that you are going to stick to, but it’s that circle of influence that continues to propel you forward that I think is so important.
And at the end of the day, if you have this yearning inside of you, if you’re an entrepreneur and you’re likely connected to us right now in this conversation, still you don’t even need the other people to keep you moving, but you want the other people to keep you connected and grounded in the process, because I can get up every single day. Nobody has to tell me things and nobody needs to tell me. But when I have people like you that I can link arms with and be like who?
Like, I feel like you’re reaching back and you’re like, God is fine up here.
Like, I want that and I need that. And that’s exactly why I coach, because I want to bring people along into this abundance factor, into this freedom factor of living within your purpose and actually understanding what wealth is. And that’s so much more than just money. Money is a fun factor, but it’s not the factor. So I just encourage anybody who’s listening to just go check out Tony Whatley three six five Driven is his website side. Hustle Millionaire is his book Tony Whatley on Instagram and I Missier anywhere that you like to hang.
Obviously my my website websites just three sixty five driven dot com and you’ll find links to every single thing.
I keep it real simple that way you’re not having to take a bunch of notes. So yeah that’s, that’s key. And I love what you talked about the, the network of people and seeing the transformation. That’s why we do these kind of things. And and I’ll tell you, there’s nothing more great gratitude fulfilling than than helping other people have always been that way. Even when I was making millions of dollars and doing things that I had pictures of driveway with ten cars in there and I’ve got property and all the stuff, I was always a happy guy and it didn’t make me any happier.
But I’m not telling you not to go achieve those financial dreams. I think that if you’re motivated and you want to have the lifestyle, I’m never going to say, like, don’t go make millions of dollars. That would be absurd. I find that a lot of people who are broke will tell you that they’ll be like, oh, I don’t need money to be happy and ask, have you ever had money? Yes, I know.
I never having the money is like, well, how do you know it didn’t make you happier? I mean, without any reference. I mean, you’re just perpetuating these social enemy beliefs that other people have. And a lot of times people use that that response was a just a way to justify why they haven’t lived to their potential. Right. Because to me, if you can go make millions of dollars, you can also donate millions of dollars if you want to be a huge philanthropist.
So do you want to go make an impact, go make a lot of income, and you can make a bigger impact wherever you are right now. So whatever you want to do with the money is up to you. But it’s a result, like you said, based on the value of the world.
Yeah, I love that so much. It’s so powerful, especially I get to help a lot of nonprofit ministry driven, minded people. And I think that that’s so amazing for them to just remember as well that that’s not that’s the place of not you’re not greedy because you’re exchanging value or you’re saying that you’re what you’re offering is more than what Wal-Mart charges like. That’s just the nature of the beast. Right. And so recognizing that and being confident about it, Tony, you are a gem.
I so enjoyed our time together. I’m motivated. I feel like I need to go on a run right now. Thank you for being here. I can’t wait to introduce my husband to your brand and your mission. And he is a car lover and infatuated with them, so is going to love it even in this Tesla.
He loves a good engine and those are pretty fast, so I’ll cut them some slack even if he can sneak up on us and we can’t hear him coming.
Exactly. Exactly. Yea, a gift. Thanks Tony. Tamra, thank you for having me on. My pleasure. Hey, it’s me again, I hope in today’s episode, you sense and ignite to an ember within you, something mentally, physically, emotionally or spiritually moving that creates and sustains a fire within your journey. Before you go, let’s solidify the flame. I’d love for you to take a step right now. And declaring your take away by snapping a pic of the episode, you tune in to share your spiked moment and tag me at Fit in Faith Podcast underscore podcast or me personally at Tamra Andress on.
Instead, I hope that I can keep you accountable and also share you with the greater community of the Fit in Faith Podcast listeners. We’re totally in this together. Community over competition is the motto, right? I’d also be incredibly grateful if you took an extra second to lead a review on iTunes or your podcast listening app. I’d love to feature your thought in the next episode and give you and your passion project a big shout out. You know I’m a writer, so I love words and I can’t wait to read what you have to say.
I’m ready to fuel the flame with you together and until next time, blessings over your joy, help, wealth and wholeness. Tune in next time.